army1987 comments on Rationality Quotes September 2012 - Less Wrong

7 Post author: Jayson_Virissimo 03 September 2012 05:18AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 07 September 2012 08:12:44AM *  2 points [-]

The actual mechanism of elections have never, so far as I know, been all that expensive pre-computation.

What? If anything I'd assume them to be more expensive before computers were introduced. In Italy where they are still paper based they have to hire people to count the ballots (and they have to pay them a lot, given that they select people at random and you're not allowed to refuse unless you are ill or something).

Comment author: DanArmak 07 September 2012 12:26:41PM *  5 points [-]

they have to pay them a lot, given that they select people at random and you're not allowed to refuse unless you are ill or something

Why so? Usually when people can't refuse to do a job, they're paid little, not a lot.

Comment author: RomanDavis 07 September 2012 12:46:06PM 2 points [-]

Like jury duty. Yeah. Why would it be different in Greece?

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 07 September 2012 08:38:56AM 4 points [-]

http://aceproject.org/ace-en/focus/core/crb/crb03

"Low electoral costs, approximately $1 to $3 per elector, tend to manifest in countries with longer electoral experience"

. In Italy where they are still paper based they have to hire people to count the ballots (and they have to pay them a lot, given that they select people at random and you're not allowed to refuse unless you are ill or something

That's a somewhat confusing comment. If they're effectively conscripted (them not being allowed to refuse), not really "hired" -- that would imply they don't need to be paid a lot...

Comment author: [deleted] 07 September 2012 10:13:35PM 1 point [-]

approximately $1 to $3 per elector

Is that that little? I think many fewer people would vote if they had to pay $3 out of their own pocket in order to do so.

If they're effectively conscripted (them not being allowed to refuse), not really "hired" -- that would imply they don't need to be paid a lot...

A law compelling people to do stuff would be very unpopular, unless they get adequate compensation. Not paying them much would just mean they would feign illness or something. (If they didn't select people by lot, the people doing that would be the ones applying for that job, who would presumably like it more than the rest of the population and hence be willing to do that for less.)

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 07 September 2012 10:26:12PM 0 points [-]

I think many fewer people would vote if they had to pay $3 out of their own pocket in order to do so.

Well perhaps fewer people would vote if they had to pay a single cent out of their own pocket -- would that mean that 0.01$ isn't little either?

A law compelling people to do stuff would be very unpopular, unless they get adequate compensation.

How much are these Italian ballot-counters being paid? Can we quantify this?

Comment author: [deleted] 07 September 2012 10:31:05PM 0 points [-]

IIRC, something like €150 per election. I'll look for the actual figure.

Comment author: Tripitaka 07 September 2012 08:53:52AM *  6 points [-]

According to Wikipedia, the 2005 elections in germany did cost 63 million euros, with a population of 81 million people. 0,78 eurocent per person or the 0,00000281st part of the GDP. Does not seem much, in the grander scheme of things. And since the german constitutional court prohibited the use of most types of voting machines, that figure does include the cost to the helpers; 13 million, again, not a prohibitive expenditure.

Comment author: Peterdjones 07 September 2012 01:07:23PM 1 point [-]

In the UK, the counters are volunteers.