TimS comments on Rationality Quotes November 2012 - Less Wrong

6 [deleted] 06 November 2012 10:38PM

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Comment author: TimS 12 November 2012 03:23:34PM 5 points [-]

Yes. For a more philosophical (and extreme) take on the issue, you can read Friedrich Nietzsche's On the Genealogy of Morals. Warning: Nietzsche is made of hyperbole, so it's often quite difficult to understand his substantive point.

In this case, the point is that the Greeks divided the world into good and bad, while we moderns divide the world into good and evil. What's the difference? It is possible to bad at a sport, but acting within the norms of the sport, it is impossible to be evil. Imagine how your moral perspective would be different if you only judged people based on whether they were "good at life" or "bad at life".

Comment author: [deleted] 13 November 2012 12:48:39PM 0 points [-]

Warning: Nietzsche is made of hyperbole, so it's often quite difficult to understand his substantive point.

Indeed, I like Nietzsche's philosophy as I know it from second-hand accounts, but when I tried to read his own writings I had to force myself through the pages and gave up. (Maybe I used a bad translation or something.)

In this case, the point is that the Greeks divided the world into good and bad, while we moderns divide the world into good and evil. What's the difference? It is possible to bad at a sport, but acting within the norms of the sport, it is impossible to be evil. Imagine how your moral perspective would be different if you only judged people based on whether they were "good at life" or "bad at life".

ISTM that many (most?) LWers also divide the world into good and bad, so, to the extent this is a fundamental disagreement between values rather than someone's confusion due to not knowing something/not thinking stuff through, CEV<LW> might be closer to CEV<Homer> than to CEV<Catholics in the late second millennium>!

BTW, I think I've also seen a two-dimensional model for that; I don't remember how the quadrant other than “good”, “bad” and “evil” (people who aren't terribly good at life, but at least try hard not to harm others as a result of their incompetence, even to a cost to themselves) was labelled -- wimps?

Comment author: RichardKennaway 13 November 2012 01:01:38PM 1 point [-]

BTW, I think I've also seen a two-dimensional model for that; I don't remember how the quadrant other than “good”, “bad” and “evil” (people who aren't terribly good at life, but at least try hard not to harm others as a result of their incompetence, even to a cost to themselves) was labelled -- wimps?

Sounds like two axes, one going from competent to incompetent, the other from well-intentioned to ill-intentioned.

Comment author: [deleted] 13 November 2012 01:08:07PM *  0 points [-]

Yes. (Not sure about the exact labels on the axes, but that was the spirit.) IIRC, “good” was the quadrant (competent, well-intentioned), “bad” was (incompetent, ill-intentioned), “evil” was (competent, ill-intentioned) and I don't remember the label on the remaining quadrant.