StRev comments on Rationality Quotes November 2012 - Less Wrong

6 [deleted] 06 November 2012 10:38PM

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Comment author: [deleted] 17 November 2012 04:28:13AM 1 point [-]

Do you mean it's imprudent for an individual to spend that much money on a heart transplant, even though she values her own life? Or do you mean it's immoral for an individual to spend that much money on herself, rather than on greater utility for others?

If it's moral for someone to spend that much of their money on a house or a yacht, it's moral for them to spend it on a heart transplant, but it may be a net utility loss for the patient.

Or do you mean it's imprudent or immoral for medical practitioners and researchers to invest so much time and effort into performing heart transplants and gradually improving the technology?

The first heart transplant was performed 45 years ago. Almost half a century of effort has yielded a state of affairs that could politely be described as 'dire'. Immoral, no, imprudent yes.

Or do you mean it's imprudent or immoral for the state to fund such efforts?

Yes and yes. The return on investment is appalling. A back of the envelope estimate I did a while ago, IIRC, showed that public health investment had a RoI 6 to 8 orders of magnitude better than organ transplants.

I also think it's immoral that the donor's estate is denied even a tiny share of the revenue.

Or do you mean it's imprudent or immoral for the state to permit individuals to purchase heart transplants?

See above, re: houses and yachts.

Comment author: DanArmak 18 November 2012 05:09:50PM 0 points [-]

The return on investment is appalling.

But the RoI for the patient himself is great. You present an argument against publicly funded research into heart transplants, but not against doing them at all.

Comment author: [deleted] 19 November 2012 04:00:46AM 1 point [-]

If the patient is spending her own money, the RoI is still terrible compared to comparable interventions like hiring a personal trainer, diet coach, personal chef, etc. that could have forestalled the need for a heart transplant. Furthermore, the actually existing health infrastructure, particularly organ procurement, is so deeply entangled with the state, that it's difficult to speak meaningfully of strictly privately funded efforts.

Comment author: DanArmak 19 November 2012 03:16:04PM 0 points [-]

the RoI is still terrible compared to comparable interventions like hiring a personal trainer, diet coach, personal chef, etc. that could have forestalled the need for a heart transplant.

Even having purchased all those, a person may need a heart transplant. Genes, disease, accidents, and nurture while young (and unable to choose one's own lifestyle) all strongly influence the eventual need for a heart transplant. So for many people, even a lot of lifetime investment into their health won't mean the RoI on a heart transplant will be bad.

Also, at the point where you choose whether to have a heart transplant, the RoI needs to be compared with other things you can do with that money during the time you have left to live without a transplant. If you have a lot of money, and the transplant improves your QALY, then the RoI is likely good.