shminux comments on Open Thread, November 16–30, 2012 - Less Wrong

3 Post author: VincentYu 18 November 2012 01:59PM

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Comment author: shminux 20 November 2012 06:30:28PM 0 points [-]

And what we call the 'territory' is a map itself.

I think a realist would take issue with this statement... Surely territory is just another name for reality?

A description is sufficient for execution, but what executes the description?

Indeed, what? Is there an underlying computing substrate, which is more "real" than the territory?

Comment author: siodine 21 November 2012 04:15:28PM *  1 point [-]

Surely territory is just another name for reality?

I think you misinterpreted me. Territory is just another name for reality, but reality is just a name and so is territory. By nature of names coming from mind, they are maps because they can't perfectly represent whatever actually is (or more accurately, we can't confirm our representations as perfectly representational and we possibly can't form perfect representations). Also, by saying "actually is," I'm creating a map, too -- but I hope you infer what I mean. The methods by which we as humans receive and transform our state is imperfect and therefore uncertainty is injected into any thing we do, and furthermore by talking of "reality" (as it actually is) we assume no limitations of human-minds or general-mind-design that prevent us from forming what actually is within the constraints of our minds and general-mind-design.

Indeed, what? Is there an underlying computing substrate, which is more "real" than the territory?

Essentially, my question was a syncretization of the five ways. I.e., at the meta-level, what causes? Some people like Aquinas say that such a cause entails that it has the most important properties ascribed to their God (and consequently they pattern match "what causes" to their God). I don't take that view, though. I just think (i.e., a hunch) there's something there to explain and that it probably necessitates a teleological worldview at the meta-level if it is to be explained. I don't know.