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Lumifer comments on Open thread, Mar. 16 - Mar. 22, 2015 - Less Wrong Discussion

6 Post author: MrMind 16 March 2015 08:13AM

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Comment author: Lumifer 16 March 2015 04:29:18PM *  7 points [-]

and then she did it and acted hurt and told me she is tired of always needing to tell me

That's pretty classical passive-aggressive behaviour. I don't think it has much to do with guess-vs-ask cultures.

But I agree that there is probably some gender correlation.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 16 March 2015 05:17:06PM 5 points [-]

It seems plausible that Hint cultures lead to passive aggression-- if you can't be just plain aggressive, what have you got left?

Comment author: Lumifer 16 March 2015 05:25:16PM 8 points [-]

I think power imbalance leads to passive aggression much more than the Hint or Ask character of the culture.

Hint and Ask are basically preferred communication protocols and most Hint people I know will adjust if the hints are clearly not working. But there is a big difference between

  • Glance at garbage. Glance at garbage. Glance at garbage. Dear, can you please take out the garbage?

and

  • Glance at garbage. Glance at garbage. Glance at garbage. You never pay any attention to me and you screwed up my whole life, you ungrateful bastard!
Comment author: [deleted] 17 March 2015 08:55:58AM 0 points [-]

I think power imbalance leads to passive aggression much more than the Hint or Ask character of the culture.

But that is largely the same thing. The classical boss-subordinate relationship is ask (order) down, guess up. Passive-aggression is extreme (angry, upset) guess, active aggression is extreme (angry, upset) ask/order.

When whole cultures are all-ask or all-guess that is probably a sign of egalitarianism - within that subset.

Comment author: Lumifer 17 March 2015 02:50:09PM 1 point [-]

The classical boss-subordinate relationship is ask (order) down, guess up.

It's more complicated. Ask/tell is simpler, faster, and more efficient so in the workplace (where status and power relationships are largely formalized) it tends to dominate anyway.

Also, as anecdata, I know a girl who is a very pronounced Hint/Guess person, but she's a manager and has underlings. She quite successfully manages them mostly on the Hint/Guess basis (within reason, of course).

Comment author: [deleted] 17 March 2015 08:52:32AM 4 points [-]

Yes, but passive-aggression is what guess-people do when upset, and active-aggression is what ask-people do when upset.

Comment author: Lumifer 17 March 2015 02:39:50PM 1 point [-]

I don't know if I am willing to accept it as a such tight relation. For one thing, being passive-aggressive is usually not one particular action, an outburst when upset, it's more like a an attitude, a continuous inclination/slant/flavour.

I think that passive vs. active aggression depends much more on power, status, and specific circumstances rather than on usually preferred communication styles.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 16 March 2015 05:24:20PM 4 points [-]

The idea that there's a gender correlation, whether for cultural or biological reasons certainly is something I've seen a fair bit when this comes up as a subject. See for example here. This one where cultural distinctions are going to be very difficult since some cultures (e.g. China) are so heavily on one side. It would I think be very interesting to see if the obvious gender trend in the West still is true in those extreme examples- it would be pretty strong evidence of a biological basis.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 16 March 2015 08:06:51PM 2 points [-]

In a way the gender aspect could be seen as a micro culture thing as women operating in their own social circles build up these sub-protocols (influenced due to power structures of ourse).