I studied it with Oleg Bakhtiyarov over a decade ago, AMA. In short, it's a corpus of techniques that use attention control beyond mere focus as the main tool. Some borrowed, some novel, but all neatly organised into a framework that allows you to do mind state "algebra" first and then try to reach these new states you derived. Techniques are working, helped me both in maintaining cognitive flexibility and creativity over time and to handle a few extreme situations in my life. There is lot of mythology around outstanding results achieved using these techniques but neither Oleg nor other experienced psychonetics practitioners never demonstrated them to us, only relayed anecdotes.
What were the most impressive results that were supposedly accomplished? Maybe we should run some experiments to see if they can be reproduced?
Definitely sus that the psychonetics superpowers weren't demonstrated but still seems worth it to try (modulo all the other stuff on my bucket list pushing it back :P).
Is there any good Anglophone resource on this or do I have to learn Russian?
Psychonetics sounds a lot like something that rationalists would be into or at least know about
To me it sounds like one of those made-up words, like "psychotronics" or "quantum mind". The fact that someone invented a word is not a sufficient reason to take it seriously.
You are apparently interested in it, and yet you have no idea what it is about. I have skimmed the page you linked, and I also have no idea. Unless someone says otherwise, for me this is sufficient evidence that we should probably ignore it.
I actually initially wrote off psychonetics because of its woo sounding name. However upon skimming the thing which I linked, I noticed two things that made me suspect that psychonetics might be worth taking seriously:
First, the safety rules and in particular, discouraging religious or spiritual interpretation and encouraging you to stop doing it if you start feeling "an otherworldly presence" or feeling as though you have magical powers and seek out a psychiatrist. Second, the purported benefits are limited in scope. It does not claim to solve all of your...
There are a lot of different personal development paradigms (or as romeostevensit calls them psychotechnologies). Most of them do I have effects even if they aren't as valuable as their proponents assert.
If only have the distinction of "this is either very useful" and "it's bullshit" you are unlikely to engage well with subjects like this.
Some paradigms are developed in English and others in other languages. There's no inherent reason to assume that English-born systems are better but an inability to access primary sources makes it a lot harder to learn paradigms that were developed in other languages and cultures.
The fact that psychonetics seems to come out of a Russian-speaking academic discourse, suggests that they likely figured out a bit about the phenomena they studied. On the other hand, having much of the literature unavailable in English (or other languages you speak) is a bad sign for studying it in depth.
Whenever I ask questions like "Is this bullshit or not", I'm not expecting a simple binary yes/no answer and it's meant to be shorthand for a question which is similar but longer and harder to word and asking for a more complex, specified answer.
Right now, I'm mostly taking a look at the thing I looked, and when and if (big if) I get far enough, I'll try to get Russian acquaintances to help me look into it further.
Curious about other personal development paradigms/psychotechnologies. So far I've mostly been trying to follow the book the Mind Illuminated and dabbling in feedbackloop-first rationality and tuning cognitive strategies.
i googled it just now bc i wanted to find a wikipedia article i read ~9 years ago mentioning "deconcentration of attention", and this LW post came up. odd.
anyway, i first found mention of it via a blue-link on the page for Ithkuil. they've since changed smth, but this snippet remains:
After a mention of Ithkuil in the Russian magazine Computerra, several speakers of Russian contacted Quijada and expressed enthusiasm to learn Ithkuil for its application to psychonetics—
i wanted to look it up bc it relates to smth i tweeted abt yesterday:
unique how the pattern is only visible when you don't look at it. i wonder what other kind of stuff is like that. like, maybe a life-problem that's only visible to intuition, and if you try to zoom in to rationally understand it, you find there's no problem after all?
oh.
i notice that relaxing my attention sometimes works when eg i'm trying to recall smth at the limit of my memory (or when it's stuck on my tongue). sorta like broadening my attentional field to connect widely distributed patterns. another frame on it is that it enables anabranching trains of thought. (ht TsviBT for the word & concept)
An anabranch is a section of a river or stream that diverts from the main channel or stem of the watercourse and rejoins the main stem downstream.
here's my model for why it works:
(update: i no longer endorse this model; i think the whole framework of serial loops is bad, and think everything can be explained without it. still, there are parts of the below explanation that don't depend on it, and it was a productive mistake to make.)
in light of this, here some tentative takeaways:
Natural languages are adequate, but that doesn't mean they're optimal.
— John Quijada
i'm a fan of Quijada (eg this lecture) and his intensely modular & cognitive-linguistics-inspired conlang, Ithkuil.
that said, i don't think it sufficiently captures the essences of what enables language to be an efficient tool for thought. LW has a wealth of knowledge about that in particular, so i'm sad conlanging (and linguistics in general) hasn't received more attention here. it may not be that hard, EMH doesn't apply when ~nobody's tried.
We can think of a bunch of ideas that we like, and then check whether [our language can adequately] express each idea. We will almost always find that [it is]. To conclude from this that we have an adequate [language] in general, would [be silly].
— The possible shared Craft of Deliberate Lexicogenesis (freely interpreted)
Furthermore, a relationship with task performance was evident, indicating that an increased occurrence of harmonic locking (i.e., transient 2:1 ratios) was associated with improved arithmetic performance. These results are in line with previous evidence pointing to the importance of alpha–theta interactions in tasks requiring working memory and executive control. (Julio & Kaat, 2019)
I haven't! But from what I've heard about Tuning Cognitive Strategies, there's a ton of low hanging fruit in anything related to tuning since it probably has a ton of potential and so few people have tried it at all. So if noone else has heard of Psychonetics, it's probably worth looking into, maybe it could contribute to Raemon's new rationality paradigm which is basically the main cognitive strategy tuning in operation right now afaik.
I agree. Right now though, I'm mostly unsure how to act on my knowledge of psychonetics' existence (and the existence of cognitive tuning, for that matter). At least for psychonetics, the sensible first step is probably to just read something on it and maybe distill it in a book review or something. Not sure about cognitive tuning in general since it's not really a thing yet.
If you (or anyone else) are interested in diving into psychonetics or cognitive tuning with me then feel free to contact me, though I can't guarantee anything will come of it because of the turbulent chaos of life (or more realistically my laziness).
It seems pretty interesting, but also seems like it would take a lot of time to practice for uncertain benefits. I wonder about the applications. Reading through the link a bit, it mentioned learning echolocation or inducing lucid dreams, which could be fun.
I thought the exercise with crossing the red and blue circles was interesting. It said one could eventually learn to see a figure in one color with the other color as the background. I wonder if it's possible to teach an aphantasiac to visualize this way. Would they have to be staring at the circles for that to work, or could they eventually learn to visualize without them? Also, if it's possible to learn to quickly and easily enter and exit a lucid dream state, that might work even better, although only a subset of aphantasiacs even have visual dreams.
I also wonder if savant skills can be learned this way.
I read a manual on it a few years ago when I was surveying various non-eastern psychotech stacks. The main technique seemed reminiscent of the way samurai trained in zen for combat advantage, becoming aware of the negative ways stressors affect perception and directly training those aspects of perception to be less affected. It didn't seem broadly interesting enough to directly pursue relative to other psychotech (eg the book Psychocybernetics).
http://deconcentration-of-attention.com/psychonetics.html
Psychonetics sounds a lot like something that rationalists would be into or at least know about but searching it on LessWrong gives a grand total of one mention in a nine-year old comment about it being a thing that rationalists might be interested in but don't talk about. I myself have no idea what it is beyond vague vibes of it being something adjacent to meditation and cognitive tuning.
Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone else has heard about it or knows anything about it, particularly whether if there's actually anything there or if its just bullshit. I wouldn't be surprised if no one knows about it since it looks like most of it is in Russian. (If anyone can speak Russian or anyone knows anyone who can speak Russian who would be willing to help me find out more about it do tell!)