While I laud his intention to survive the disease, there is another approach to carrying it out. ALS is not necessarily fatal
Aaron notes that his scores are relatively bad, and he is likely to die soon because of this:
50% of everyone diagnosed will die within 2 to 3 years of the onset of the disease. 80% will be gone in 5 years. And only 10% go on to survive a decade, most of them locked in, paralyzed completely, similar to Stephen Hawking. Sadly, my scores put me on the fast track of the 50%, and I am coming up quickly on 3 years.
Hal Finney is apparently still alive as of November 2012, but he hasn't been very active online since 2010. Anyone have an update on how he's doing?
Hi Aaron,
I'm surprised to read that you spent some time in a Buddhist monastery, and yet you're still looking at cryonics as a solution? I don't pretend to know how it must feel to have your life taken away from you in this way, it must be awful in many ways, still, I have spent time in a Buddhist monastery myself, and am now a practicing Buddhist, and as such I've spent much time meditating on a gentle and smooth transition into death, the nature of consciousness and the spontaneous arising of being...
My general feeling is that cryonics is a little spooky, in some ways it brings to mind Jeremy Bentham's example, and I know, this might seem trite, but is the thought of letting go really so awful? Wouldn't it in some ways be a blessed relief? I know that there is always an argument in favour of each side, but hasn't your experience with Buddhism given you any insight into how to carry on the legacy of this life into the next one?
People choose from among many options for their bodies after death. Some choose to be buried, some choose cremation. Some choose to donate their bodies to science. That last is precisely what happens with cryonics: in addition to helping to answer the obvious question of will future revival from cold storage be possible,
This claim is factually false. Cyronics organizations don't use their customers' bodies for research, and in general they don't do much research of any kind.
many developments in cryonics help modern medicine with the development of better preservation for organ transplantation and blood volume expanders.
As far as I know, in over 50 years of existence, cryonics didn't develop or improve any technique for medicine to use.
EDIT:
Luke Parrish mentioned one in the comments below.
As far as I know, in over 50 years of existence, cryonics didn't develop or improve any technique for medicine to use.
For one, Hextend, a blood plasma volume expander used in conventional surgery, was developed by cryonicists at Trans Time, Inc while experimenting with hypothermia.
It's hard to understand cryonics in any meaningful way if you don't have wide swaths of regular science. Osmosis, ice formation, glass formation, toxicity mechanisms, chilling injury, apoptosis, blood pressure, ischemia, perfusion impairment... I will be wikifying this in the near future.
For one, Hextend, a blood plasma volume expander used in conventional surgery, was developed by cryonicists at Trans Time, Inc while experimenting with hypothermia.
Can you provide more information, please?
The product you mention seems to have been developed by BioTime, a biomedical company.
The only relationship between BioTime and Trans Time (a now defunct for-profit cryonics company) that I've been able to find on Google was that Trans Time owned some stocks of BioTime:
This is what I'm going on:
Unless you are a long-time cryonicist or a surgeon, you may not have heard of BioTime before. This company, recently profiled for its innovative stem cell research in Life Extension Magazine, is best known for producing the blood-volume expander Hextend, which was initially developed by Trans Time, an early cryonics company performing ultra-profound hypothermia research. Realizing the potential for Hextend’s conventional medical applications, BioTime was formed and, as they say, the rest is history.
http://www.evidencebasedcryonics.org/2008/10/12/biotimes-quest-to-defeat-aging/
This claim is factually false. Cyronics organizations don't use their customers' bodies for research, and in general they don't do much research of any kind.
You have clearly never read the Alcor case reports. Whether you view them with horror-at-the-ineptitude, or awe-at-the-learning-process, they're clearly having all sorts of fun experimenting with the bodies.
Of course, whether this is useful research is up to you to decide, but it's clear that the "preservation" side is still rather experimental. They do at least document all of it, too.
Eh, they're trying multiple ways of preservation to see what works best. We can't test which ones allow the best cyro-recoveries, but I don't see how it's de-facto not science.
I personally consider them shoddy amateurs due to some of the horror stories buried in there, but stating that it's "factually false" that they do ANY research seems an overly strong claim.
Eh, they're trying multiple ways of preservation to see what works best. We can't test which ones allow the best cyro-recoveries, but I don't see how it's de-facto not science.
Science means:
Come up with a testable hypothesis
Design an experiment to test it
Perform the experiment
Statistically evaluate the outcome and determine if it is evidence in favor or against the hypothesis
Communicate the results to the scientific community
Science most definitely does not mean: "Let's try something random today and see what happens".
This is the core difference between scientific research and pre-scientific empiricism.
but stating that it's "factually false" that they do ANY research seems an overly strong claim.
The don't do any scientific research on their human corpses. They did some research on non-human animals in the past, but AFAIK, they didn't publish much.
I agree that the human patient case studies are not a strong example of science, but think they should count at least as weak examples. The hypothesis being tested would be that certain solutions can be successfully introduced via perfusion (various methods tested) to minimize morphological and/or biological damage to the brain, and under what circumstances. The results can be measured e.g. afterwards by CT scans, measuring concentration of solutes in venous return, or microphone acoustic measurements of ice formation / cracking.
Arguably, the rabbit kidney studies of Fahy, Wowk, et al are motivated primarily by cryonics and only secondarily by the desire to transport lab-grown organs more effectively. (On the other hand, lab-grown organs are more promising candidates for this than donor organs, since they can be genetically and physically modified.)
One challenge to proposing animal research is that it could raise animal rights concerns, which could be exacerbated by cryonics' delicate political position. One way around this would be to focus (for now) on testing models that do not involve reawakening the animal. For example, Peter Gouras recently proposed on Cryonet that the mammalian eye could serve as a good non-revival model. The animal would be euthanized, and the eye would be subsequently cannulated, perfused, and cooled. When re-warmed, measurements of the electrical effects of a light flash on the retina would be used to validate its functionality.
Science most definitely does not mean: "Let's try something random today and see what happens".
That does seem to be how mathematics works, though.
They did some research on non-human animals in the past, but AFAIK, they didn't publish much.
You seem to concede that you were wrong and they have done some research, even if most of what they do isn't. That was my sole objection, so I think we're on the same page now >.>
This claim is factually false. Cyronics organizations don't use their customers' bodies for research, and in general they don't do much research of any kind.
Note the present tense and the use of the adjective 'much' rather than 'any'.
Aaron Winborn writes:
Blog post: http://aaronwinborn.com/blogs/aaron/open-source-software-developer-terminal-illness-hopes-opt-out-death
Hacker news discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5211602