Say I were to tell you "I have a large treasure chest full of gold doubloons" and you were to say "Really, let me see it?", so we went to my house to look at my chest. We enter my living room, where there is a fireplace with a mantel....
This is my first post here, so please don't bully me. I know all you math-boys with your big, wrinkly brains could do me a serious bruising. I beg thee mercy, for I am but a first time poster. First things first - Oliver boy, I am on to you....
What are some reasonable alternatives in the circumstance that someone is reclining unto your or requesting you un-recline?
That's not a bad point.
I think that other people consider this example as a means to discuss some far more abstract ideas of what is morally right in the situation. This was mentioned in my post as:
Is it appropriate for any person to recline their seat?
To which I said that there is a definite right answer to this question, based on the optimization of some dimension. This is always what is behind morality, in any case - It is just a rule for optimizing something, whether it be autonomy, privacy, etc.
What I should have also said here is that there is absolutely no way anyone is answering this question here. Furthermore, in... (read more)
Yes? And? Why should that result in expulsion from the flight?
You have totally missed the point of my link/example, which is that airlines can and do kick you off a flight for things that seem like very innocuous, harmless things—things that you never imagine would result in your expulsion. Can you predict with any great certainty that you won’t get kicked off a plane for harassing a fellow passenger? You absolutely cannot.
You are, at this point, not arguing with any good faith.
First, there are obvious, substantial differences between my post and your example.
Second, my original post, if read with the least possible charity, was not advocating for harassment. I wrote "Third, be... (read more)
That man was removed from the plane because he Tweeted about the gate agent he was arguing with, publicly mentioning her name and the gate she was working at. Duff Watson, the man in that article you linked, mentioned the staff person's name and location.
That's not really a fitting comparison to what I am proposing. That cannot be used to say "But there is a single example of this occurring" ( i.e an instantiation ).
I am proposing a common sense, applicable solution in the case that someone finds themselves unable to perform certain tasks on a flight because the person in front of them is reclining.
Also, they can complain to the airline as well. There you go. The two are not mutually exclusive, nor did my original post explicitly advise against this.
My experience is the contrary. People find it quite tough to ignore someone speaking to them directly.
Furthermore, I never suggested doing anything that intrudes upon them. My advice is to restate your case a few times and aim for compromise. This is only as intrusive as the recline itself.
It's also worth noting that while you're not trying to be annoying, the recliner is likely to perceive you as such. You are not being intentionally annoying, though. This is something that ought to have been mentioned, admittedly.
Regarding the flight attendant comment, you have nothing to loose here but a short moment's embarrassment, if that.
There are three separate issues here.
One is - Is it appropriate for any person to recline their seat?
The other is - If you are a non-recliner and a seat is reclined unto you, what is the appropriate reaction?
The last is - If you recline unto a non-recliner and they ask for you to put your seat in the upright position, what is the ethical response?
For the first question, one way I can think to test this would be to examine the differences in total leg-room volume when everyone is not reclined against when everyone is reclined.
If I had more time in the day, I could certainly come up with more detailed, rigorous... (read more)
Also, I am not trying to bash Friedman here. That's not the point of this post. The specifics of the example really are not as important as the general idea of the person referring to a thinker and then pivoting subjects quickly.
Hmm some of these people would, no doubt, turn out to be belief-in-believers if they were questioned.
Some of these cases are also no doubt cached thoughts, but I think a significant number are not.
I have a reply below to noggin-scratcher's comment that goes into this in more detail.
Hey, also - thanks for the comment.
I replied to this and a bit more below, in noggin-scratcher's comment.
p.s thanks for commenting
Say I were to tell you "I have a large treasure chest full of gold doubloons" and you were to say "Really, let me see it?", so we went to my house to look at my chest.
We enter my living room, where there is a fireplace with a mantel. I say "Look, it's right on top of the mantel", but there are only picture frames.
You approach the fireplace confused. "Where is it?" you finally ask.
"Don't you see, right here." I say, walking towards the fireplace and picking up one of the picture frames atop the mantel.
"Isn't it beautiful, my chest full of gold?" I say, handing the picture to you.
You look at... (read more)
This is my first post here, so please don't bully me. I know all you math-boys with your big, wrinkly brains could do me a serious bruising. I beg thee mercy, for I am but a first time poster.
First things first - Oliver boy, I am on to you. I see what you've done here, disguising your work of legitimate philosophy in self-help's clothing.
Just when I thought I could listen to another audiobook telling me to take cold showers, drink green juice, and meditate all with a "scientists have even discovered..." sprinkled atop, you snuck one past me.
Not only did you avoid mentioning green juice even once, but you avoided laundry lists... (read 1039 more words →)
How would they have to act for this to happen?
If someone suggested the idea of reducing your recline by 50% politely, would you really, in actual lived life, reply making a protest of your "rights"?
I implore you to really think of what this would be like in real life. Someone nicely asking for this. It's a long flight.
Also, to consider the views of other people here and the positive effects of your signaling is speculative at best. You don't know how people will perceive you. Sure, you think you are standing up for what is obviously you right. You have no way to verify this is what other's believe though.
That just seems like something rather shaky to consider a positive externality. Alternatively, you could maybe make the case that there is always value to protecting your rights, a la MLK's famous "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere", and I would salute your courage to die on that hill, as you surely would die.