All of ZZZling's Comments + Replies

Jeff's and his acquaintance's ideas should be combined! Why one or the other? Let's implement both! Ok, plan is like this. Offer all people "happiness maximization" free option, first. Those who accept it will immediately go to Happiness Vats. I hope, Jeff Kaufman, as the author of the idea, will go first, giving all us a positive example. When a deadline for "happiness maximization" program is over, then "suffering minimization" starts and the rest of humanity is wiped out by a sudden all out nuclear attack. Given that lucky ... (read more)

"So if you're under the impression that this is a point..."

Yes, I'm under that impression. Because the whole idea about "Friendly AI" implies a subtle, indirect, but still control. The idea here is not to control AI at its final stage, rather to control what this final stage is going to be. But I don't think such indirect control is possible. Because in my view, the final shape of AI is invariant of any contingencies, including our attempts to make it "friendly" (or "non-friendly"). However, I can admit that on early... (read more)

Yes, there is some ambiguity in use of words, I myself noticed it yesterday. I can only say that you understood it correctly and made the right move! OK, I'll try to be more accurate in using words (sometimes it is not simple, requires time and effort).

Well, it's not that I made it to self-organize, it is information coming from the real world that did the trick. I only used a conventional programming language to implement a mechanism for such self-organization (neural network). But I'm not programming the way how this network is going to function. It is rather "programmed" by reality itself. The reality can be considered as a giant supercomputer constantly generating consistent streams of information. Some of that information is fed to a network and makes it to self-organize.

You've implemented a neural network (rather simple) and made it to self-organize to recognize rabbits. It was self-organized following outside sensory input (this is only one way direction of information flow, another direction would be sending controlling impulses to network output, so that those impulses would affect what kind of input the network receives).

I think I understand now why you keep mentioning GAP. You thought that I objected the idea of morality programming due to zombie argument. Sort of, we will create only a morality imitating zombie, rather than a real moral mind, etc. No, my objection is not about this. I dont take zombies seriously and dont care about them. My objection is about hierarchy violation. Programming languages are not right means to describe/implement high-level cognitive architectures, which will be a basis for morality and other high-level phenomena of mind.

I thought those question were innocent. But if it looks like a violation of some policy, then I apologize for that. I never meant any personal attack. I think you understand my point now (at least partially) and can see how weird it looks to me such ideas as programming morality. I now realize, there maybe many people here who take these ideas seriously.

I think you misunderstood my point here.

But first, yes, I skimmed through the recommended article, but dont see how does it fit in here. Its an old familiar dispute about philosophical zombies. My take on this, the idea of such zombies is rather artificial. I think it is advocated by people who have problems a understanding mind/body connection. These people are dualists, even if they don`t admit it.

Now about morality. There is a good expression in the article you referenced: high-level cognitive architectures. We don`t know yet what this architecture is, ... (read more)

I would be cautious regarding noise or redundancy until we know exactly whats going on in there. Maybe we dont understand some key aspects of neural activity and think of it as just a noise. I read somewhere that the old idea about only a fraction of brain capacity being used is not actually true. I partially agree with you, modern computers can cope with neural network simulations, but IMO only of limited network size. But I don`t expect dramatic simplifications here (rather complications :) ). It all will start with simple neuronal networks modeled on co... (read more)

That’s not my point. Of course everything is reducible to Turing machine. In theory. However, it does not mean you can make this reduction practically. Or it would be very inefficient. Von Neumann architecture implies its own hierarchy of information processing, which is good for programming of various kinds of formal algorithms. However, IMHO, it does not support a hierarchy of information processing required for AI, which should be a neural network similar to a human brain. You cannot program each and every algorithm or mode of behavior, a neural network... (read more)

AI cannot be just "programmed" as, for example, a chess game. When we talk about computers, programming, languages, hardware, compilers, source code, etc., - we're, essentially implying a Von Neumann architecture. This architecture represents a certain principle of information processing, which has its fundamental limitations. That ghost that makes an intelligence cannot be programmed inside a Von Neumann machine. It requires a different type of information processing, similar to that implemented in humans. The real progress in building AI will ... (read more)