ChrisHallquist comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 17, chapter 86 - Less Wrong
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One thing I really liked about this update is it helps explain why Harry hasn't figured out Quirrell = Voldemort yet. He's reasoning (perhaps without even having spelled it out in his head this way) that if Quirrell had been Voldemort, he would have won very quickly.
This is all fascinating, because it's a fairly good solution to the problem of "if Harry is so smart, why hasn't he figured out the solution to the problem that most of the audience has figured out by now?" I can't say I would have come up with that good of a solution to such a problem in any story I was writing.
That said, it seems like there are at least three conversations which could unravel the whole thing:
Harry learns enough about horcruxes to make the Pioneer Plaque connection.
Harry confesses about Azkaban, Dumbledore says "Harry, you fool!" and that's that.
Hermione tells Harry about her recent conversation with Quirrell, confirming David Monroe = Quirrell = the plotter and suggesting the possibility that Voldemort was toying with Magical Britain for the fun of it during the war.
Please remember that the audience has a lot more information on the subject than Harry himself, for not only do we get to see whats happening in the scenes of the story without Harry in them, we also have the huge advantage of having read the canon Harry Potter books. As Quirrell worked for Voldemort in canon, our prior probability that Quirrell is working for Voldemort is high, even before we read HPMOR. Harry on the other hand, hasn't even had a reason to consider that this is a possibility, let alone to assign a high probability to it.
1- Harry could conclude Quirrell made the Pioneer Plaque into a horcrux without coming to the conclusion that he's Voldemort. That Quirrell has made at least one horcrux is evidence towards him being Voldemort, but not all people who've made horcruxes are Voldemort.
2- This would probably convince Dumbledore that Quirrell is the top candidate for being Voldemort, but I think Dumbledore would need to follow it up with more investigation to convince Harry; I don't think Dumbledore has much more evidence to bring to the table if Harry lets this spill that he hasn't told Harry already.
3- Suspecting Quirrell as the plotter hasn't led Harry to suspect Quirrell as Voldemort yet, and I don't really see how hearing David Monroe's explanation of his backstory would lead Harry to conclude he was toying with Magical Britain for fun; he could simply conclude he's a largely amoral person who tried being good for the reward, but concluded that it wasn't rewarding.
Well, there is a thing that should at least ring a bell in Harry's mind to me. The "resonance" between Quirrell and Harry preventing their magic to interact which each other, when Voldemort transferred part of his magic to Harry, should be considered significant evidence towards Quirrell being Voldemort. Harry knows his magic partly comes from Voldemort, he knows Quirrell and his magic resonate in an unheard of way, and yet, he doesn't at least suspect a link between the two ?
I don't see the obvious link between those; magical transference seems like it could more easily lead to casting spells together more effectively, not it being a terrible idea to cast spells together. Harry is also biased against presuming causal factors that he can't articulate a motivation for, and so it doesn't seem likely that the character would come across that hypothesis in the first place.
I've read all the chapters up to 86 and I didn't figure it out. Care to enlighten me? Of course Quirrell is extremely suspicious but his persona can be explained as well by being Monroe.
If you need more evidence, vg'f rkcyvpvgyl zragvbarq va rneyl Nhgube'f Abgrf obgu gung Dhveeryy vf Ibyqrzbeg naq gung Ryvrmre jnf trahvaryl fhecevfrq ng ubj ybat vg gbbx crbcyr gb trg guvf. Punyx vg hc gb n pbzovangvba bs crbcyr orvat hasnzvyvne jvgu pnaba, crbcyr nffhzvat Ryvrmre jnf gevpxvat gurz, naq vyyhfvba bs genafcnerapl...
I think part of the issue is that Eliezer decided to portray being a good manipulator realistically with the result that Quirrell successfully managed to manipulate half the audience.
This is spoilers, which Eliezer officially retracted. Please rot13 it, at least.
Sure.
Have you ever read Philosopher's Stone? I hadn't when I first read HPMOR, so I totally missed the Quirrell thing, but it's pretty blatant once you're handed the answer on a canonical platter.
I didn't read the canon.
Then a first-book spoiler for you: Ibyqrzbeg fcraqf svefg lrne rzorqqrq va gur onpx bs Dhveeryy'f urnq.
Should I read your comment or will it spoil the fun? I'm assuming that it is possible to read and understand HPMOR without having to read the canon? So far I'm doing fine. Although I also watched the last HP movie so I have some info from the canon.
If you've read HPMOR and watched Deathly Hallows, it will not be much of a surprise. However, it has not been explicitly stated by any of the material you've read/watched to date, so it is technically a spoiler.
That said, HPMOR does get better when you start getting all the canon in-jokes, so I would recommend consuming the originals at some point. They're actually pretty good(even if the first two are basically kid's novels).
Well, he pretty clearly turned the Pioneer Plaque into a Horcrux, told Harry, then Obliviated him when he reacted badly. Also, at two separate points he claims to have "resolved his family issues" and later states that his family is "long since dead by the Dark Lord's hand." Hardly conclusive, but there are other, similar little hints and Q has after all admitted to "playing a game of lying with truths." Oh, and Voldemort in Canon always wanted to teach at Hogwarts. So there's that.
You're not supposed to say what he did to the Pioneer plaque out loud! It's more funner to realize it on your own.
Where do you get that he Obliviated Harry? All of his lines sound like reasonable first-iteration attempts, and Harry didn't lose time.
I, ah, I got it from the ellipses. Which is suddenly seeming much less reasonable. In my defense, it IS the same effect used for Hermione.
Quirrell can't cast spells on Harry without some sort of magical resonance occurring. He almost certainly has not been obliviating Harry.
Well, it's the same effect as when H&C brute-forced Hermione. Although that's a good point about their magic; I'd forgotten about that. There are ways around it, of course ...
Do you know which chapter that was? I cannot remember this passage.
Chapter 20. Of course, that's just my reading of it, but I think it's a popular interpretation - it certainly seems the most plausible one.
That is so weird - I've never heard that interpretation, and I can't seem to get it out of the text. I just see Harry reacting not-badly, and no sign that Harry was obliviated.
The, ah, the ellipses?
Waitaminute. That was just him staring silently, wasn't it? And the line about "fifty feet taller" just meant he seemed so much more imposing for having ... strengthened the pioneer plaque ...
...
Actually, on reflection, that seems both an obvious interpretation and a strange one. Although it doesn't run into the problem of magic interacting. It honestly never occurred to me to interpret this any other way, although of course it predated the Azkaban revelation of what happened when they interacted.
Why is it formatted just like Hat & Cloak's little memory modifications, then? Those are the only other examples of Quirrel (or anyone, really) memory-charming people and it looks exactly the same.
There's a big fat hint in chapter 20. It's compatible with Monroe!Quirrell being an unpleasant person in the same way Voldemort was, but one of those on each side including the supposedly good one is less likely than the big bad playing both sides.
Here are the relevant quotes:
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