I feel a particular frustration here as someone who is both pretty ASI-pilled and pretty into liberal democracy. And when I say liberal democracy I don’t so much mean the specific political structure that seems efficient at our current tech level but rather the set of underlying moral commitments like non-domination and a government of the people — commitments which I’m aware might soon be a lot more expensive.
I think this idea of assuming the immutability of current relationships and power dynamics is a common crux in how people interpret advanced AI's impact on the future. Ex: the economy must require humans to function, consent of the governed setting lower bounds on state misbehavior, continuity of state monopolies on violience, building superweapons is hard, the solidity of mutually assured destruction.
Another important component of this is the ability of humans to make rational choices (as voters, consumers, etc). Even though we know this is only an imperfect system (see: advertisements and addictions), it's still workable enough to be the backbone of liberal democracy. However, once you have agents running around that can ~deterministically model and manipulate humans, or design superhumanly compelling narratives and media, this useful fiction is going to collapse.
There are technical solutions to all these problems (tools for epistemics, AI proxies, more resilient second-strike assurances, AI-enabled coordination), but they have to actually get implemented. And to get implemented, you need the foresight to realize these assumptions aren't guaranteed to hold in the face of technological progress.
I wonder if there's a key question around something like whether improvement to (let's call it) liberal social order and societal wisdom can be substantial and fast enough to curtail, delay, or otherwise redirect (let's call it) an unfettered ASI transition... and whether that improvement can be hastened using contemporary and near-future AI. Or at least, whether that's at least as viable to pay off in time as various other long-shot hopes. I think it's the best long shot on the table.
At the end, you wrote,
start by maxing out our own existing potential to be smarter, wiser, and better. They may not be likely or easy, but the fire is still burning
so I think you maybe agree. But the earlier part of this essay gives more impression of confidence that a rapid ASI transition is basically locked in at this point.
Thanks for this, and the gradual disempowerment paper, and the workshops!
if an idealised democracy collectively decided to blow itself up with me inside then I think that would be its right and I wouldn’t want to stop it.
This serves as a concise and elegant denunciation of the very concept of democracy.
The closest intuition pump I can think of for that scenario is in Three Worlds Collide by Yudkowsky, when the Confessor, born in the before-times of scarcity and strife, explains that he joined a rebellious movement that tried to overturn the global government for decriminalising non-consensual sex.
In that story, the young Confessor at the time understood rape as a crime of such proportions that the world must have become crazy to allow it, and that it was time to make tabula rasa with this brave new society.
From the perspective of the democratized regular people who supported the decriminalization, they were raised in such a loving and benevolent society, that they could only fathom non-consensual sex as being in the interests of the recipient.
(It's not explicitly stated in the story, but imo quite implicit, that the regular person's opinion is correct here, and "rape" as a concept is no longer a typical representative of "non-consensual sex".)
I think that ontological discrepancy is the kind of reason why, if I were Douglas, I might prefer to defer to democracy than to my own opinions, although in the case of Douglas, he makes it sound more like unconditional ideological commitment, which I can understand from the perspective of virtue-signalling, but not on the naked object-level.
I completely agree here that more thought needs to go into what 'success' in AI alignment even looks like apart from 'ask the supposedly aligned AI what to do once we give it all the power'. I definitely also think that ideas of non-domination, liberty etc from philosophical republicanism are important beyond the regular welfarist utility maximisation framework.
If you're interested, I've tried to do some preliminary thinking about this question here -- https://www.beren.io/2026-08-07-Maximum-Entropy-Morality-Metaplastic-Constitutionalism-And-The-Dynamic-Virtues/
That might sound like an extremely lukewarm take
We need more lukewarm takes please! The world would be a better place if everyone had lukewarm takes!
It’s easy to take potshots, but I expect there is a very painful tradeoff between good outcomes and good processes,
Some part of me believe a good process is a good outcome? Like what if the thing that you want to protect itself is the unfolding of a just and kind way of seeing the world? What if the process itself is the outcome?
Now you might say, well that doesn't bloody help us align ASI does it but it might just! What is CEV if not a process for finding values? Some of the 4d chess proposal for aligning ASI like QACI are essentially also processes of value search.
I want a dictator claude to implement a world wide democratic process damnit! Vingean reflection and having reflexively stable values are blown way out of proportion as alignment problems imo and I do very much believe that some degree of process alignment is possible.
I really appreciate this post fwiw.
As ASI reaches towards technological maturity, it's more like the fabric of reality rather than a government. You exist within laws of physics, you are made out of their nature. The question is what can you do in that world, within those laws, not whether the laws of physics can be altered once in place, by anything outside their own nature. It's a good idea to hold off on putting the laws in place, before you know what that entails. And it would be nice if the laws of nature allowed you to build your own smaller worlds, and for you to become your own version of the laws, the way you would choose to on your own.
(Which is to say, the so-called ASI-pilled takes are not ASI-pilled. Perhaps there needs to be a further gradation.)
Yeah, I share all of your worries in almost the same words. In a way I feel we shouldn't even wish for worlds where responsibility is taken away from us. It's better to aim for the opposite: becoming more capable of responsibility for ourselves.
Maybe the only principled path is to slow down AI and accelerate human intelligence. Preferably via technologies that can help everyone, like pharma / brain stimulation / brain-computer interfaces, rather than technologies that will create inequality, like designer babies.
I've mentioned this possibility to quite a few people. The usual response is we can't slow AI progress enough, IA will be too slow, blah blah. Quitters.
I see pharma, brain stimulation, brain-computer interfaces, and designer babies alike as sharing several (entwined but distinct) properties:
I'd like to see more of this attitude but also applied in directions breaking past those limitations. Tech can be multiplayer, infrastructural, like libraries, citations, fact-checking, Wikipedia. What comes next? Can we develop and distribute it quickly? (Community notes, epistemic scaffolding, knowledge commons, foresight tooling, coalition tech, bargaining bots, ...?)
Beautifully written! You frame the question well. It's one of my favorite questions. I've considered it a lot and have rarely heard answers along these lines (although I'm sure others have similar ideas):
I think what people miss is the expansion of both physical and mental possibilities in a world with a benevolent ASI. For starters, we needn't settle for one shared world.
What is your ideal world? You shall have it! You want discovery and self-determination? Even at risk of disaster and death? Very well!
I will have a different utopia, shared with those whose preferences are close enough for compromise.
We'll have as many as we want. Many of us will visit each others' utopias, if their rules allow it.
There are limitations in what we can each get, but they are small - I think near epsilon.
You'll say that something is missing if your challenge is created by an all-powerful ASI who could solve those problems for you if you but asked. How will you have your full sense of discovery, achievement, and self-determination? You won't love this, but with consideration I think you'll come around: we erase that knowledge from your memory, so that you can have the full experience of discovery and struggle and creating your own future.
We'll do it only with your consent. You'll protest that this is not really what you want, but I'll protest that my objection to dying for your form of dignity is stronger than your desire to inhabit the one true world in which struggle is real. Your discomfort lasts only until you take the memory operation. And it will be reversible. You set the exit conditions, or if you truly want to struggle and die, feel free.
This will allow for an unlimited range of challenges, simulated in as much soul-crushing detail as you care for, lasting for as short or long a time as you signed up for. Choose carefully, and try a little before you commit to a lot!
Where will these utopias exist? If you insist, we can terraform new worlds and put you in cold sleep until they're ready and we can get you there. I will be taking the fast route with easier travel to the many neighboring utopias: simulation.
If you think that an upload isn't you, we can keep your brain running in your body. If you can accept that a copy that proclaims "I am still me! I have every memory, every trace of doubt that I would still be me - and I am!" is actually you, we can dispense with the meat brain and perhaps we will run multiple of you in parallel, merging memories if they haven't diverged too far.
The possibilities are nearly endless.
We need to really stretch our imaginations before concluding that a benevolent god couldn't provide the best of all possible worlds.
Perhaps we're already in such a sim. I don't worry about this, because I think if we are the goal is probably to solve alignment, anyway. And perhaps have some fun along the way.
Related, but tangential: Imagining success is far harder than imagining failure. This may be a major blocker to convincing people we can all win big if we just cooperate on building ASI safely.
Edit: I realize this doesn't fully relieve your concerns. I don't think they can be relieved without you imposing your will on me. And I'd really rather you not, when I've got so much to gain. In exchange, I'll forgo imposing my will on anyone, too.
Something has to run the world, and I'd rather it be a benevolent god than a bunch of fallible humans. Having nobody be in charge so we can fight about it has been very far from optimal so far. Your historical examples have usually been fraught with fear and danger of death and sometimes worse.
I'd also expect the humans to arrive at a similar scheme if they don't screw it up. So human control of the future is mostly okay with me too.
I think the sense of possibility and helping shape the future is something that very few human beings have gotten much of, and it has played relatively small roles in the emotional lives of even the ones who have truly shaped the world. I think we'd actually get a lot more of that sense of agency and adventure by getting worlds of our own to shape, shared challenges to overcome, and adventure from exploring other people's challenges and uniquely designed worlds.
Partly this is me grieving the coming loss of innocence. There are certain kinds of freedom people used to have that are gone now — hopping on a train and go to a new town; walking into a forest and picking out a patch of land to be your home; jumping on a boat, sail to a different country, wander right in; building your own house in whatever strange way you want. There was also a time when science was virgin soil. Maybe we’ll get some of these back, but maybe some of them are necessary sacrifices, or unavoidable features of progress.
I think games will be important for purpose in the future. There are some feelings like that of finding a genuinely new scientific discovery which will certainly be gone in the ASI world.
Imo, we should create games that capture the feeling of all of these experiences and let people experience them first hand. Ideally they're created today by people who experience these things first-hand and still remember them viscerally, so that they can be a first-party genuine recreation rather than a recreation from the history books. That will not make the experience real, but it would be as real as it gets, and we have a limited time to record them before AI takes over more and more meaningful things in our current daily lives.
IMO. my current take on the entire debate is I believe that it's very hard to retain democracy by default, regardless of whether it's desirable to retain it, and the largest reason for this is that being a democracy is going to be disadvantegous in national competition, because freedom flips from increasing state power to harming state power.
@David Duvenaud made a very good point that once people are mostly jobless, people can perpetually protest, and without severe repression, can destroy the state with their own AIs simply by just increasing protest size to 30-40% of the population, and also that in an economy where humans are mostly jobless and any work is done voluntarily, UBI or some equivalent becomes necessary, and at that point fights over redistribution become literally life and death, and not giving UBI to a group means you are in essence causing the group to die, meaning politics is less positive-sum than before.
More generally, this point from Ben Garfinkel is relevant here on how automation makes democracy decline.
So the answer here is pretty simply that maintaining democracy is far too intractable, thus the benevolent god option wins by default.
(And this is assuming no superpersuasion happens, which if it does happen, pretty much makes democracy trivial eventually.)
This strikes me as a core problem of AI alignment, rather than something lost amid the struggle to solve alignment.
We don't yet know how to build human-aligned AI. But I expect one property any human-aligned AI must have is that it actually listens to humans in some way. Some of the most promising partial proposals for safe superintelligence involve quite a bit of creativity in translating human input into AI behavior (I'm thinking in particular about iterated distillation and amplification here).
For any good proposal to scale up AI to a benevolent sovereign, I'd expect the proposer to offer strong technical and humanistic answers to the question: "How does the machine take human input, and what does that mean for humans' autonomy and self-determination?"
Zvi recently coined a nice distinction between AGI-pilled and ASI-pilled: as more people are reckoning with the speed of progress, some are beginning to come around to the fact that AI could be superhuman at a huge range of tasks in a way that radically reshapes society, but not that it could leap us to the end of the tech tree shortly afterwards and start making nanotech and dyson spheres.
Hence, you see people saying things like “Because of AI we must rethink the entire notion of mathematical progress”, or “I have to make sure I amass lots of capital before most jobs get automated”: pretty crazy statements, and yet, still not quite grappling with how wild things could get in the next few years, let alone the next decade.
I feel a particular frustration here as someone who is both pretty ASI-pilled and pretty into liberal democracy. And when I say liberal democracy I don’t so much mean the specific political structure that seems efficient at our current tech level but rather the set of underlying moral commitments like non-domination and a government of the people — commitments which I’m aware might soon be a lot more expensive.
What to do? Well, on the one hand, there’s a growing body of legitimately AGI-pilled liberalism, pushing for things like pluralistic alignment and AI-assisted democracy, but mostly not really reckoning with the possibility of humans losing all meaningful leverage — that even if we could align AIs, we would still be facing an earth-shattering upheaval of our political economy. And on the other hand, the default position among the ASI-pilled seems to be that sooner or later we’re just going to have to hand over all power to Claude 8 Pantheon. Honestly, I find myself a little adrift.
De parabel der blinden, by Pieter Bruegel the Elder
These two factions are both correctly noticing that modern liberal democracies are wholly unequipped for what is coming. We can already see legislative processes struggling to keep up with the state of current AI — which, I must remind you, is the weakest it will ever be.
And the liberal democracy crowd is correctly noticing that actually there’s a lot you can do to shore this up against AGI — indeed, lots of ways AGI could help with AGI. It might even be able to help reverse some of the brutal erosion that liberal democracy has been suffering of late. They are also quite prudently continuing to observe that alignment is not only a technical problem but also a political and moral question about what values should have influence over the future.
Meanwhile, the Claude 8 Pantheon crowd is correctly noticing that it’s possible we’re headed for a reasonably fast takeoff (as in, less than a term of office) that completely flips the gameboard, and it’s a heck of a lot simpler to just put an aligned AI in charge rather than trying to retrofit deliberative processes. Liberalism and democracy are both pretty demanding, and we may not be in a position to make many demands of our solutions. Also, maybe aligned AGI would actually be more moral than us?
I could anthropologise more about the STEM high modernists not realising they’re high modernists and the humanities people who don’t like straight lines, but ultimately that’s just a way of dodging the harder and more important question, which is: what do I even want here? What is this ASI liberalism thing I’m trying to stand up for?
It’s not liberal values, like having people be safe from harm. I think even the people who want to hand over power to an ASI ASAP are kind of hoping said ASI will lock those things in. In fact, I think many of them believe that a fairly swift handover is in expectation the best way to safeguard those values.
It’s also not liberal institutions, like everybody voting for a local representative every N years or a (mostly) free market revealing the fair price of goods. These aren’t really core to what I care about, so much as mechanisms that enact it, given certain ambient constraints. And if those constraints change — as I suspect they will — then so should the mechanisms.[1]
What it is, I think, is a secret third thing getting lost in the middle — the bit where the government is a thing made up of people, and the people have power, and the moral right of the government to exercise power comes from the people in it.
Freedom of Speech, by Norman Rockwell
I think the best way to pin down this third thing is by looking at where it’s in tension with the others. Or rather, hopefully we can all agree that hollow zombified remnants of democratic institutions are not great, and that specific principles like voting structures are valuable for what they do, rather than for their ceremonial aesthetic. So let’s focus on how the process ends up in tension with individual values and outcomes.
Here’s one example: I do not like benevolent dictators, not because they might secretly be evil but because they have the capacity to arbitrarily infringe on people’s rights, whether they exercise it or not. There’s a long digression to be had about the fragility of consequentialism and the nature of decision procedures, but ultimately, I’m not a utilitarian.[2]
Relatedly, I think it’s very bad to manipulate or coerce people even in pursuit of saving the world. That might sound like an extremely lukewarm take but, well, unfortunately I think lots of people disagree. And to be fair, this conviction of mine does have some unpleasant consequences that I accept: if an idealised democracy collectively decided to blow itself up with me inside then I think that would be its right and I wouldn’t want to stop it. There are situations where I’d rather die with dignity than live without.[3]
I get all torn up about technocracy because I believe there are smarter ways to make society function but I also kind of like the fact that we do things the slow way where everyone is involved. And sure it’s not perfect — it’s all kinds of broken — but there’s something important there. I was actually a bit surprised when I realised this, but apparently I’m some kind of bleeding heart patriot.
And when I read stuff like Ian M. Banks’s Culture novels, where mankind is ruled over by machines of loving grace, I do get a bit of visceral revulsion. I do not want to put on the whispering earring. I do not want man to be abolished.
Still from (and rot13 spoiler for) Gur Gehzna Fubj
Of course, none of this is new — there’s a well-oiled subfield of research full of people who keep saying things like “it is important that the values we align AIs to are not decided by a small group of powerful people” and “the benefits of AI progress should be widely shared”. Unfortunately, it feels to me like many of the people saying this just don’t seem to get it — what they want to do about all this is, like, fund upskilling programmes and change what goes in the constitution and support development in third world countries and do more participatory democracy schemes instead of trying to prevent the potential oncoming apocalypse.
If you are worried about literally everybody dying in five-ish years and the light of human civilization winking out for good, it’s sometimes a bit hard to take such people seriously. “But my participatory democracy programme will help us navigate the challenges and opportunities of AI,” they say. “Sure thing buddy,” you reply.
(Lest you think me callous, part of what prompted this essay is a melancholy conversation about how much it sucks to feel yourself inadvertently developing a reflexive dismissal of smart and thoughtful people who are really trying unusually hard to do good in a changing world, whom you happen to disagree with about how well neural nets will generalise.)
It especially doesn’t help that these types of concern — equality and dignity and so on — are so widely recognised as important that it sometimes feels like they’re the default fig leaf that organisations pick up to Show They Care, in a way that sometimes feels like an intentional deflection from grappling with ASI.
I get the sense sometimes that people who have really stared into the void basically just feel alienated from people who have not done that. These void-gazers notice that they believe a lot of very weird things that appear to be frighteningly accurate. Democracy is hard and slow and everything is really unbelievably ten kinds of on fire. All these debates about legitimacy and pluralism are interesting preoccupations for people worried about mere AGI. Once you’re worried about ASI, you don’t really have the luxury. Politics is useful insofar as it gives a lever for influencing the world, but mostly it’s inconvenient that politicians are ‘waking up’ because now there’s a risk they’ll start doing things like wanting all this power for themselves.
Morning Sun, by Edward Hopper
It’s easy to take potshots, but I expect there is a very painful tradeoff between good outcomes and good processes, which bites so much harder if and when humans stop having anything useful to contribute. And all these other questions are somewhat moot if we’re all dead. Separately, I happen to think that if we mess these other questions up bad enough, we could still basically lose all value even if we’ve solved technical alignment, but the point I’m trying to make here is that there are some things at stake, distinct from whether we survive, and perhaps even in tension with it, which I nonetheless care about protecting.
Partly this is me grieving the coming loss of innocence. There are certain kinds of freedom people used to have that are gone now — hopping on a train and go to a new town; walking into a forest and picking out a patch of land to be your home; jumping on a boat, sail to a different country, wander right in; building your own house in whatever strange way you want. There was also a time when science was virgin soil. Maybe we’ll get some of these back, but maybe some of them are necessary sacrifices, or unavoidable features of progress.
And part of this is an extended apology for gradual disempowerment. One of the successes of the paper is that it swayed some smart people sceptical of takeover towards taking x-risk seriously. But it mostly didn’t ASI pill them, so their solutions still seem to me to be pretty unlikely to work, and in many cases I expect them to make the problem actively worse. Conversely, some ASI-pilled people were like “ah thank you for finally expressing what I’ve been thinking”, but plenty basically don’t buy it and are pushing in directions which I expect will make things worse.[4]
Positioned as I am with feet in both worlds, I’m a bit worried that the ASI crowd is writing off liberalism a bit because the liberalism crowd is writing off ASI, and vice versa.
And heck, I do think there’s something here worth fighting for.
Impression, Sunrise, by Claude Monet
Maybe we get worlds where we really are watched over by machines of loving grace who also tile the further edges of the universe with happy squiggles and the literal utility scores are through the roof, and future humans are a bit like pampered kittens — the world is pretty nice for them, but not because they have any meaningful leverage, liberty, or comprehension. This sounds great from a utilitarian perspective, but I do not like it one bit.
And I do not think it is the only way — I think there are worlds where we focus on massively increasing the coordination bandwidth between humans and more generally start by maxing out our own existing potential to be smarter, wiser, and better. They may not be likely or easy, but the fire is still burning. We could start by just getting a bit clearer about what people mean when they talk about the dangers of extreme power concentration, or what we want to align ASI to, and what that would even mean.
One nice thing about the existential risk movement of yore was that it was all pretty hypothetical and we could all have our different answers to thought experiments, but now we’re getting into the period where some people are actually going to have to decide whether to hit the big button that says “give the power to Claude so that it can try to save the lightcone from the evils of men’s hearts”. As it happens, I expect I am somewhat more sceptical about whether that will turn out well, but that’s not really the core of it. If I believed it was likely to work, I would still feel bad about it, and even if it all worked out and we found ourselves in the golden fields being watched over by the proverbial machines of loving grace, I would still feel like something had been lost along the way.
This, incidentally, will force us to ask some very difficult questions about what properties of those mechanisms we really care about, and separate the bugs from the features. For example, what are democratic representatives actually representative of? Would real communism be good if we could actually try it?
Technical digression for philosophy nerds: The precise term for this conception of liberty is ‘republicanism’. Carlsmith and Laine have characteristically thoughtful essays on the tension between liberalism and welfare which shaped my thinking here, but the notion of liberty they focus on is itself the more Benthamite conception grounded in non-interference. That said, Laine’s piece and Carlsmith’s broader series do grapple with non-domination in spirit.
Awkwardly I do not think we currently pass the bar for “idealised democracy”. By analogy, I support the principle of euthanasia, and have more mixed feelings about implementation. But the fact that we currently fall short of my vision of good democracy doesn’t lead me to feel that anything goes.
It’s part of the reason why I and others have been doing things like running workshops on post-AGI civilizational equilibria, but even there, it’s really an uphill battle to get people to fully grapple with the bit about post-AGI civilizational equilibria.