AspiringKnitter comments on Welcome to Less Wrong! - Less Wrong

48 Post author: MBlume 16 April 2009 09:06AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (1953)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: AspiringKnitter 24 December 2011 09:55:33AM 3 points [-]

Let's first confirm that you're willing to pay up, if you are who I say you are.

That's problematic since if I were Newsome, I wouldn't agree. Hence, if AspiringKnitter is Will_Newsome, then AspiringKnitter won't even agree to pay up.

Not actually being Will_Newsome, I'm having trouble considering what I would do in the case where I turned out to be him. But if I took your bet, I'd agree to it. I can't see how such a bet could possibly get me anything, though, since I can't see how I'd prove that I'm not him even though I'm really not him.

Comment author: Mitchell_Porter 24 December 2011 10:10:08AM 3 points [-]

if I took your bet, I'd agree to it.

All right, how about this. If I presented evidence already in the public domain which made it extremely obvious that you are Will Newsome, would you pay up?

By the way, when I announced my belief about who you are, I didn't have personal profit in mind. I was just expressing confidence in my reasoning.

Comment author: AspiringKnitter 24 December 2011 10:25:10AM 2 points [-]

All right, how about this. If I presented evidence already in the public domain which made it extremely obvious that you are Will Newsome, would you pay up?

There is no such evidence. What do you have in mind that would prove that?

Comment author: Mitchell_Porter 24 December 2011 10:47:03AM 7 points [-]

You write stream-of-consciousness run-on sentences which exhibit abnormal disclosure of self while still actually making sense (if one can be bothered parsing them). Not only do you share this trait with Will, the themes and the phrasing are the same. You have a deep familiarity with LessWrong concerns and modes of thought, yet you also advocate Christian metaphysics and monogamy. Again, that's Will.

That's not yet "extremely obvious", but it should certainly raise suspicions. I expect that a very strong case could be made by detailed textual comparison.

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 25 December 2011 08:09:49PM 21 points [-]

AspiringKnitter's arguments for Christianity are quite different from Will's, though.

(Also, at the risk of sounding harsh towards Will, she's been considerably more coherent.)

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 26 December 2011 10:18:55AM 15 points [-]

I think if Will knew how to write this non-abstractly, he would have a valuable skill he does not presently possess, and he would use that skill more often.

Comment author: Will_Newsome 27 December 2011 10:41:09AM 1 point [-]

By the time reflective and wannabe-moral people are done tying themselves up in knots, what they usually communicate is nothing; or, if they do communicate, you can hardly tell them apart from the people who truly can't.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 27 December 2011 11:24:27AM 13 points [-]

Point of curiosity: if you took the point above and rewrote it the way you think AspiringKnitter would say it, how would you say it?

Comment author: Will_Newsome 27 December 2011 11:59:30AM *  8 points [-]

(ETA: Something like this:)

What I'm saying is that most people who write a Less Wrong comment aren't totally stressing out about all the tradeoffs that inevitably have to be made in order to say anything at all. There's a famous quote whose gist is 'I apologize that this letter is so long, but I didn't have very much time to write it'. The audience has some large and unknown set of constraints on what they're willing to glance at, read, take seriously, and so on, and the writer has to put a lot of work into meeting those constraints as effectively as possible. Some tradeoffs are easy to make: yes, a long paragraph is a self-contained stucture, but that's less important than readibility. Others are a little harder: do I give a drawn-out concrete example of my point, or would that egregiously inflate the length of my comment?

There are also the author's internal constraints re what they feel they need to say, what they're willing to say, what they're willing to say without thinking carefully about whether or not it's a good idea to say, how much effort they can put into rewriting sentences or linking to relevant papers while their heart's pumping as if the house is burning down, vague fears of vague consequences, and so on and so forth for as long as the author's neuroticism or sense of morality allows.

People who are abnormally reflective soon run into meta-level constraints: what does it say about me that I stress out this much at the prospect of being discredited? By meeting these constraints am I supporting the proliferation of a norm that isn't as good as it would be if I met some other, more psychologically feasible set of constraints? Obviously the pragmatic thing to do is to "just go with it", but "just going with it" seems to have led to horrifying consequences in the past; why do I expect it to go differently this time?

In the end the author is bound to become self-defeating, dynamically inconsistent. They'll like as not end up loathing their audience for inadvertently but non-apologetically putting them in such a stressful situation, then loathing themselves for loathing their audience when obviously it's not the audience's fault. The end result is a stressful situation where the audience wants to tell the author to do something very obvious, like not stress out about meeting all the constraints they think are important. Unfortunately if you've already tied yourself up in knots you don't generally have a hand available with which to untie them.

ETA: On the positive side they'll also build a mega-meta-FAI just to escape all these ridiculous double binds. "Ha ha ha, take that, audience! I gave you everything you wanted! Can't complain now!"

Comment author: AspiringKnitter 04 January 2012 08:09:51AM 3 points [-]

You know, in some ways, that does sound like me, and in some ways it really still doesn't. Let me first of all congratulate you on being able to alter your style so much. I envy that skill.

What I'm saying is that most people who write a Less Wrong comment aren't totally stressing out about all the tradeoffs that inevitably have to be made in order to say anything at all.

Your use of "totally" is not the same as my use of "totally"; I think it sounds stupid (personal preference), so if I said it, I would be likely to backspace and write something else. Other than that, I might say something similar.

There's a famous quote whose gist is 'I apologize that this letter is so long, but I didn't have very much time to write it'.

I would have said " that goes something like" instead of "whose gist is", but that's the sort of concept I might well have communicated in roughly the manner I would have communicated it.

The audience has some large and unknown set of constraints on what they're willing to glance at, read, take seriously, and so on, and the writer has to put a lot of work into meeting those constraints as effectively as possible. Some tradeoffs are easy to make: yes, a long paragraph is a self-contained stucture, but that's less important than readibility. Others are a little harder: do I give a drawn-out concrete example of my point, or would that egregiously inflate the length of my comment?

An interesting point, and MUCH easier to understand than your original comment in your own style. This conveys the information more clearly.

There are also the author's internal constraints re what they feel they need to say, what they're willing to say, what they're willing to say without thinking carefully about whether or not it's a good idea to say, how much effort they can put into rewriting sentences or linking to relevant papers while their heart's pumping as if the house is burning down, vague fears of vague consequences, and so on and so forth for as long as the author's neuroticism or sense of morality allows.

This has become a run-on sentence. It started like something I would say, but by the end, the sentence is too run-on to be my style. I also don't use the word "neuroticism". It's funny, but I just don't. I also try to avoid the word "nostrils" for no good reason. In fact, I'm disturbed by having said it as an example of another word I don't use.

However, this is a LOT closer to my style than your normal writing is. I'm impressed. You're also much more coherent and interesting this way.

People who are abnormally reflective soon run into meta-level constraints:

I would probably say "exceptionally" or something else other than "abnormally". I don't avoid it like "nostrils" or just fail to think of it like "neuroticism", but I don't really use that word much. Sometimes I do, but not very often.

what does it say about me that I stress out this much at the prospect of being discredited?

Huh, that's an interesting thought.

By meeting these constraints am I supporting the proliferation of a norm that isn't as good as it would be if I met some other, more psychologically feasible set of constraints?

Certainly something I've considered. Sometimes in writing or speech, but also in other areas of my life.

Obviously the pragmatic thing to do is to "just go with it", but "just going with it" seems to have led to horrifying consequences in the past; why do I expect it to go differently this time?

I might have said this, except that I wouldn't have said the first part because I don't consider that obvious (or even necessarily true), and I would probably have said "horrific" rather than "horrifying". I might even have said "bad" rather than either.

In the end the author is bound to become self-defeating,

I would probably have said that "many authors become self-defeating" instead of phrasing it this way.

dynamically inconsistent

Two words I've never strung together in my life. This is pure Will. You're good, but not quite perfect at impersonating me.

They'll like as not end up loathing their audience for inadvertently but non-apologetically putting them in such a stressful situation, then loathing themselves for loathing their audience when obviously it's not the audience's fault.

Huh, interesting. Not quite what I might have said.

The end result is a stressful situation where the audience wants to tell the author to do something very obvious, like not stress out about meeting all the constraints they think are important.

...Why don't they? Seriously, I dunno if people are usually aware of how uncomfortable they make others.

Unfortunately if you've already tied yourself up in knots you don't generally have a hand available with which to untie them.

I'm afraid I don't understand.

ETA: On the positive side they'll also build a mega-meta-FAI just to escape all these ridiculous double binds. "Ha ha ha, take that, audience! I gave you everything you wanted! Can't complain now!"

And I wouldn't have said this because I don't understand it.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 27 December 2011 03:35:06PM 3 points [-]

And yet, your g-grandparent comment, about which EY was asking, was brief... which suggests that the process you describe here isn't always dominant.

Although when asked a question about it, instead of either choosing or refusing to answer the question, you chose to back all the way up and articulate the constraints that underlie the comment.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 27 December 2011 12:22:44PM 2 points [-]

Have you looked into and/or attempted methods of lowering your anxiety?

Comment author: [deleted] 25 December 2011 08:11:21PM 8 points [-]

Wow, is that all of your information? You either have a lot of money to blow, or you're holding back.

Comment author: [deleted] 26 December 2011 01:06:05AM 3 points [-]

“Deep familiarity with LessWrong concerns and modes of thought” can be explained by her having lurked a lot, and the rest of those features are not rare IME (even though they are under-represented on LW).

Comment author: JoachimSchipper 04 January 2012 10:14:26AM *  0 points [-]

I put some text from recent comments by both AspiringKnitter and Will_Newsome into I write like; it suggested that AspiringKnitter writes "like" Arthur Clarke (2001: A Space Odyssey and other books) while Will_Newsome writes "like" Vladimir Nabokov (Lolita and other books). I've never read either, but it does look like a convenient textual comparison doesn't trivially point to them being the same.

Also, if AspiringKnitter is a sockpuppet, it's at least an interesting one.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 04 January 2012 11:33:29AM *  2 points [-]

When I put your first paragraph in that confabulator, it says "Vladimir Nabokov". If I remove the words "Vladimir Nabokov (Lolita and other books)" from the paragraph, it says "H.P. Lovecraft". It doesn't seem to cut possible texts into clusters well enough.

Comment author: wedrifid 04 January 2012 11:52:42AM *  2 points [-]

I just got H.P. Lovecraft, Dan Brown, and Edgar Allan Poe for three different comments. I am somewhat curious as to whether this page clusters better than random assignment.

ETA: @#%#! I just got Dan Brown again, this time for the last post I wrote. This site is insulting me!

Comment author: [deleted] 04 January 2012 02:41:37PM 1 point [-]

I just got Dan Brown again, this time for the last post I wrote. This site is insulting me!

Apparently I write like Stephenie Meyer. And you feel insulted?

Comment author: JoachimSchipper 04 January 2012 11:48:11AM *  0 points [-]

Looks like you are right. Two of my (larger, to give the algorithm more to work with) texts from other sources gave Cory Doctorow (technical piece) and again Lovecraft (a Hacker News comment about drug dogs?)

Sorry, and thanks for the correction.

Comment author: [deleted] 26 December 2011 02:38:08AM 0 points [-]

the themes and the phrasing are the same.

Can you provide examples?