Update: Ruby and I have posted moderator notices for Duncan and Said in this thread. This was a set of fairly difficult moderation calls on established users and it seems good for the LessWrong userbase to have the opportunity to evaluate it and respond. I'm stickying this post for a day-or-so.
Recently there's been a series of posts and comment back-and-forth between Said Achmiz and Duncan Sabien, which escalated enough that it seemed like site moderators should weigh in.
For context, a quick recap of recent relevant events as I'm aware of them are. (I'm glossing over many details that are relevant but getting everything exactly right is tricky)
- Duncan posts Basics of Rationalist Discourse. Said writes some comments in response.
- Zack posts "Rationalist Discourse" Is Like "Physicist Motors", which Duncan and Said argue some more and Duncan eventually says "goodbye" which I assume coincides with banning Said from commenting further on Duncan's posts.
- I publish LW Team is adjusting moderation policy. Lionhearted suggests "Basics of Rationalist Discourse" as a standard the site should uphold. Paraphrasing here, Said objects to a post being set as the site standards if not all non-banned users can discuss it. More discussion ensues.
- Duncan publishes Killing Socrates, a post about a general pattern of LW commenting that alludes to Said but doesn't reference him by name. Commenters other than Duncan do bring up Said by name, and the discussion gets into "is Said net positive/negative for LessWrong?" in a discussion section where Said can't comment.
- @gjm publishes On "aiming for convergence on truth", which further discusses/argues a principle from Basics of Rationalist Discourse that Said objected to. Duncan and Said argue further in the comments. I think it's a fair gloss to say "Said makes some comments about what Duncan did, which Duncan says are false enough that he'd describe Said as intentionally lying about them. Said objects to this characterization" (although exactly how to characterize this exchange is maybe a crux of discussion)
LessWrong moderators got together for ~2 hours to discuss this overall situation, and how to think about it both as an object-level dispute and in terms of some high level "how do the culture/rules/moderation of LessWrong work?".
I think we ended up with fairly similar takes, but, getting to the point that we all agree 100% on what happened and what to do next seemed like a longer project, and we each had subtly different frames about the situation. So, some of us (at least Vaniver and I, maybe others) are going to start by posting some top level comments here. People can weigh in the discussion. I'm not 100% sure what happens after that, but we'll reflect on the discussion and decide on whether to take any high-level mod actions.
If you want to weigh in, I encourage you to take your time even if there's a lot of discussion going on. If you notice yourself in a rapid back and forth that feels like it's escalating, take at least a 10 minute break and ask yourself what you're actually trying to accomplish.
I do note: the moderation team will be making an ultimate call on whether to take any mod actions based on our judgment. (I'll be the primary owner of the decision, although I expect if there's significant disagreement among the mod team we'll talk through it a lot). We'll take into account arguments various people post, but we aren't trying to reflect the wisdom of crowds.
So if you may want to focus on engaging with our cruxes rather than what other random people in the comments think.
Some meta notes about moderation process
Preamble: I like transparency
I think it is much better when the LessWrong userbase knows more about how site moderation happens, i.e. who does it, what the tools are, what actions and decisions are, who’s responsible for what, how they think about things, etc. While being careful to say that LessWrong is not a democracy and we will not care equally about the judgments of everyone on the site just because they're an active member[1], I think transparency is valuable here for at least these overlapping reasons:
LessWrong team members mostly speak for themselves
I think it's important that LessWrong team members don't have to pretend to all agree with each other some aggregate official team belief. We each have our models which while being pretty correlated are our own, and it's good when we just speak from them. See my post on this topic for more elaboration.
This approach is a little tricky in the context of moderation since people really need a clear sense of the policies and rules and that's hard if different moderators say different and conflicting things. I'm not sure how to best handle this, but one idea is that moderators are always clear about what's their judgment vs from what they think the policy we plan to endorse is. The team is currently three people who are very in-sync and work very closely, so for any bigger mod decision, we'll have checked to clarify underlying policies. Or so I hope.
Who moderates, who's responsible?
The LessWrong team is part of Lightcone Infrastructure. The core LessWrong team is Ruby (me, team lead), Raemon, and RobertM[2]. Habryka is head of Lightcone and also responsible for reviving LW/building LW2.0, and was for a long-time the chief moderator. He isn't the day-to-day moderator any more, but we regularly consult him and he'll poke us about things he thinks are an issue. Other Lightcone team members will often weigh in moderation or take some actions sometimes[3]
I (and Lightcone generally) have found generally that many collaborative situations go much better if a single person owns each decision, other people can weigh in, but ultimately that person decides and gets to be held responsible. (You can also hold people responsible for who they delegate ownership to.) This is how we aspire to operate on the LessWrong team: for any decision, we can tell you who was responsible for making it.
In that vein:
Generally, I am the final decision-maker for LessWrong matters unless I have delegated. (Habryka could fire me or in very exceptional circumstances overrule me, but that'd be surprising for that to happen.) However, there are two general large delegations that I've made, one very relevant for moderation. RobertM is CTO and has ownership of all technical aspects of the codebase (architecture, standards, etc). Raemon is Head of New User and <something something corrective/problem user moderation> (we haven't figured out what exactly to call it it) moderation, i.e. Ray gets to decide which new users are welcome on the site, how they get onboarded, etc., Ray is also in charge of judgments about what we do when users seem to violating norms or makes the site worse, etc., i.e. bans, warnings, and other matters. However, decisions about overall site policies, values, norms, etc remain with me.
The Duncan and Said situation plausibly requires some kind of corrective action of one or more people's behavior, and therefore it is Ray's final call what happens with those users. If you want a certain decision made (e.g. disciplinary action), you should focus on addressing his cruxes, etc. To the extent there's a broader site policy question (e.g. which behaviors are ok or not in general), that's in my court. I care a lot of the moderation judgment of others, particular Raemon and Habryka who shape my own thinking a lot, but if you want a certain site policy, know that my cruxes are key (but if you can persuade Raemon or Habryka, good chance I'll be convinced too.)
I (and I am pretty sure others) care a great deal about the opinions and feelings of: 1) users who we think share the core values of the site as we see them and who have good judgment about things, 2) the users who we think contribute most to LessWrong's goals of intellectual progress, etc. It feels less important to me to appease users I'm more ambivalent about being on the site.
jimrandomh also works heavily on the LessWrong site, that not as part of the core team.
Less so at the moment as policies are unclear since LW Team is adjusting moderation policy
Very informative (and thanks for your efforts)! Who owns the domain name lesswrong.com?