Gear-level models are expensive - often prohibitively expensive. Black-box approaches are usually much cheaper and faster. But black-box approaches rarely generalize - they're subject to Goodhart, need to be rebuilt when conditions change, don't identify unknown unknowns, and are hard to build on top of. Gears-level models, on the other hand, offer permanent, generalizable knowledge which can be applied to many problems in the future, even if conditions shift.

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Stephen Fowler63-12
38
Very Spicy Take Epistemic Note:  Many highly respected community members with substantially greater decision making experience (and Lesswrong karma) presumably disagree strongly with my conclusion. Premise 1:  It is becoming increasingly clear that OpenAI is not appropriately prioritizing safety over advancing capabilities research. Premise 2: This was the default outcome.  Instances in history in which private companies (or any individual humans) have intentionally turned down huge profits and power are the exception, not the rule.  Premise 3: Without repercussions for terrible decisions, decision makers have no skin in the game.  Conclusion: Anyone and everyone involved with Open Phil recommending a grant of $30 million dollars be given to OpenAI in 2017 shouldn't be allowed anywhere near AI Safety decision making in the future. To go one step further, potentially any and every major decision they have played a part in needs to be reevaluated by objective third parties.  This must include Holden Karnofsky and Paul Christiano, both of whom were closely involved.  To quote OpenPhil: "OpenAI researchers Dario Amodei and Paul Christiano are both technical advisors to Open Philanthropy and live in the same house as Holden. In addition, Holden is engaged to Dario’s sister Daniela."
robo159
2
Our current big stupid: not preparing for 40% agreement Epistemic status: lukewarm take from the gut (not brain) that feels rightish The "Big Stupid" of the AI doomers 2013-2023 was AI nerds' solution to the problem "How do we stop people from building dangerous AIs?" was "research how to build AIs".  Methods normal people would consider to stop people from building dangerous AIs, like asking governments to make it illegal to build dangerous AIs, were considered gauche.  When the public turned out to be somewhat receptive to the idea of regulating AIs, doomers were unprepared. Take: The "Big Stupid" of right now is still the same thing.  (We've not corrected enough).  Between now and transformative AGI we are likely to encounter a moment where 40% of people realize AIs really could take over (say if every month another 1% of the population loses their job).  If 40% of the world were as scared of AI loss-of-control as you, what could the world do? I think a lot!  Do we have a plan for then? Almost every LessWrong post on AIs are about analyzing AIs.  Almost none are about how, given widespread public support, people/governments could stop bad AIs from being built. [Example: if 40% of people were as worried about AI as I was, the US would treat GPU manufacture like uranium enrichment.  And fortunately GPU manufacture is hundreds of time harder than uranium enrichment!  We should be nerding out researching integrated circuit supply chains, choke points, foundry logistics in jurisdictions the US can't unilaterally sanction, that sort of thing.] TLDR, stopping deadly AIs from being built needs less research on AIs and more research on how to stop AIs from being built. *My research included 😬
Tamsin Leake2224
7
I'm surprised at people who seem to be updating only now about OpenAI being very irresponsible, rather than updating when they created a giant public competitive market for chatbots (which contains plenty of labs that don't care about alignment at all), thereby reducing how long everyone has to solve alignment. I still parse that move as devastating the commons in order to make a quick buck.
Akash189
2
My current perspective is that criticism of AGI labs is an under-incentivized public good. I suspect there's a disproportionate amount of value that people could have by evaluating lab plans, publicly criticizing labs when they break commitments or make poor arguments, talking to journalists/policymakers about their concerns, etc. Some quick thoughts: * Soft power– I think people underestimate the how strong the "soft power" of labs is, particularly in the Bay Area.  * Jobs– A large fraction of people getting involved in AI safety are interested in the potential of working for a lab one day. There are some obvious reasons for this– lots of potential impact from being at the organizations literally building AGI, big salaries, lots of prestige, etc. * People (IMO correctly) perceive that if they acquire a reputation for being critical of labs, their plans, or their leadership, they will essentially sacrifice the ability to work at the labs.  * So you get an equilibrium where the only people making (strong) criticisms of labs are those who have essentially chosen to forgo their potential of working there. * Money– The labs and Open Phil (which has been perceived, IMO correctly, as investing primarily into metastrategies that are aligned with lab interests) have an incredibly large share of the $$$ in the space. When funding became more limited, this became even more true, and I noticed a very tangible shift in the culture & discourse around labs + Open Phil * Status games//reputation– Groups who were more inclined to criticize labs and advocate for public or policymaker outreach were branded as “unilateralist”, “not serious”, and “untrustworthy” in core EA circles. In many cases, there were genuine doubts about these groups, but my impression is that these doubts got amplified/weaponized in cases where the groups were more openly critical of the labs. * Subjectivity of "good judgment"– There is a strong culture of people getting jobs/status for having “good judgment”. This is sensible insofar as we want people with good judgment (who wouldn’t?) but this often ends up being so subjective that it ends up leading to people being quite afraid to voice opinions that go against mainstream views and metastrategies (particularly those endorsed by labs + Open Phil). * Anecdote– Personally, I found my ability to evaluate and critique labs + mainstream metastrategies substantially improved when I spent more time around folks in London and DC (who were less closely tied to the labs). In fairness, I suspect that if I had lived in London or DC *first* and then moved to the Bay Area, it’s plausible I would’ve had a similar feeling but in the “reverse direction”. With all this in mind, I find myself more deeply appreciating folks who have publicly and openly critiqued labs, even in situations where the cultural and economic incentives to do so were quite weak (relative to staying silent or saying generic positive things about labs). Examples: Habryka, Rob Bensinger, CAIS, MIRI, Conjecture, and FLI. More recently, @Zach Stein-Perlman, and of course Jan Leike and Daniel K. 
If your endgame strategy involved relying on OpenAI, DeepMind, or Anthropic to implement your alignment solution that solves science / super-cooperation / nanotechnology, consider figuring out another endgame plan.

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The forum has been very much focused on AI safety for some time now, thought I'd post something different for a change. Privilege.

Here I define Privilege as an advantage over others that is invisible to the beholder. This may not be the only definition, or the central definition, or not how you see it, but that's the definition I use for the purposes of this post. I also do not mean it in the culture-war sense as a way to undercut others as in "check your privilege". My point is that we all have some privileges [we are not aware of], and also that nearly each one has a flip side. 

In some way this is the inverse of The Lens That Does Not See Its Flaws: The...

8Razied
The word "privilege" has been so tainted by its association with guilt that it's almost an infohazard to think you've got privilege at this point, it makes you lower your head in shame at having more than others, and brings about a self-flagellation sort of attitude. It elicits an instinct to lower yourself rather than bring others up. The proper reactions to all these things you've listed is gratitude to your circumstances and compassion towards those who don't have them. And certainly everyone should be very careful towards any instinct they have at publicly "acknowledging their privilege"... it's probably your status-raising instincts having found a good opportunity to boast about your intelligence, appearance and good looks while appearing like you're being modest. 

I grew up knowing "privilege" to mean a special right that was granted to you based on your job/role (like free food for those who work at some restaurants) or perhaps granted by authorities due to good behavior (and would be taken away for misusing it).  Note also that the word itself, "privi"-"lege", means "private law": a law that applies to you in particular.

Rights and laws are social things, defined by how others treat you.  To say that your physical health is a privilege therefore seems like either a category error, or a claim that other pe... (read more)

Summary:

We think a lot about aligning AGI with human values. I think it’s more likely that we’ll try to make the first AGIs do something else. This might intuitively be described as trying to make instruction-following (IF) or do-what-I-mean-and-check (DWIMAC) be the central goal of the AGI we design. Adopting this goal target seems to improve the odds of success of any technical alignment approach. This goal target avoids the hard problem of specifying human values in an adequately precise and stable way, and substantially helps with goal misspecification and deception by allowing one to treat the AGI as a collaborator in keeping it aligned as it becomes smarter and takes on more complex tasks.

This is similar but distinct from the goal targets of prosaic alignment efforts....

2Seth Herd
I read your linked shortform thread. I agreed with pretty most of your arguments against some common AGI takeover arguments. I agree that they won't coordinate against us and won't have "collective grudges" against us. But I don't think the arguments for continued stability are very thorough, either. I think we just don't know how it will play out. And I think there's a reason to be concerned that takeover will be rational for AGIs, where it's not for humans. The central difference in logic is the capacity for self-improvement. In your post, you addressed self-improvement by linking a Christiano piece on slow takeoff. But he noted at the start that he wasn't arguing against self-improvement, only that the pace of self improvement would be more modest. But the potential implications for a balance of power in the world remain. Humans are all locked to a similar level of cognitive and physical capabilities. That has implications for game theory where all of the competitors are humans. Cooperation often makes more sense for humans. But the same isn't necessarily true of AGI. Their cognitive and physical capacities can potentially be expanded on. So it's (very loosely) like the difference between game theory in chess, and chess where one of the moves is to add new capabilities to your pieces. We can't learn much about the new game from theory of the old, particularly if we don't even know all of the capabilities that a player might add to their pieces. More concretely: it may be quite rational for a human controlling an AGI to tell it to try to self-improve and develop new capacities, strategies and technologies to potentially take over the world. With a first-mover advantage, such a takeover might be entirely possible. Its capacities might remain ahead of the rest of the world's AI/AGIs if they hadn't started to aggressively self-improve and develop the capacities to win conflicts. This would be particularly true if the aggressor AGI was willing to cause global cata
2Seth Herd
In the near term AI and search are blurred, but that's a separate topic. This post was about AGI as distinct from AI. There's no sharp line between but there are important distinctions, and I'm afraid we're confused as a group because of that blurring. More above, and it's worth its own post and some sort of new clarifying terminology. The term AGI has been watered down to include LLMs that are fairly general, rather than the original and important meaning of AI that can think about anything, implying the ability to learn, and therefore almost necessarily to have explicit goals and agency. This was about that type of "real" AGI, which is still hypothetical even though increasingly plausible in the near term.

That's true, they are different. But search still provides the closest historical analogue (maybe employees/suppliers provide another). Historical analogues have the benefit of being empirical and grounded, so I prefer them over (or with) pure reasoning or judgement.

2Seth Herd
Yes, we do see such "values" now, but that's a separate issue IMO. There's an interesting thing happening in which we're mixing discussions of AI safety and AGI x-risk. There's no sharp line, but I think they are two importantly different things. This post was intended to be about AGI, as distinct from AI. Most of the economic and other concerns relative to the "alignment" of AI are not relevant to the alignment of AGI. This thesis could be right or wrong, but let's keep it distinct from theories about AI in the present and near future. My thesis here (and a common thesis) is that we should be most concerned about AGI that is an entity with agency and goals, like humans have. AI as a tool is a separate thing. It's very real and we should be concerned with it, but not let it blur into categorically distinct, goal-directed, self-aware AGI. Whether or not we actually get such AGI is an open question that should be debated, not assumed. I think the answer is very clearly that we will, and soon; as soon as tool AI is smart enough, someone will make it agentic, because agents can do useful work, and they're interesting. So I think we'll get AGI with real goals, distinct from the pseudo-goals implicit in current LLMs behavior. The post addresses such "real" AGI that is self-aware and agentic, but that has the sole goal of doing what people want is pretty much a third thing that's somewhat counterintuitive.

A couple of weeks ago three European economists published this paper studying the female income penalty after childbirth. The surprising headline result: there is no penalty.

Setting and Methodology

The paper uses Danish data that tracks IVF treatments as well as a bunch of demographic factors and economic outcomes over 25 years. Lundborg et al identify the causal effect of childbirth on female income using the success or failure of the first attempt at IVF as an instrument for fertility.

What does that mean? We can’t just compare women with children to those without them because having children is a choice that’s correlated with all of the outcomes we care about. So sorting out two groups of women based on observed fertility will also sort them based on income and...

JBlack20

Yes, that was my first guess as well. Increased income from employment is most strongly associated with major changes, such as promotion to a new position with changed (and usually increased) responsibilities, or leaving one job and starting work somewhere else that pays more.

It seems plausible that these are not the sorts of changes that women are likely to seek out at the same rate when planning to devote a lot of time in the very near future to being a first-time parent. Some may, but all? Seems unlikely. Men seem more likely to continue to pursue such opportunities at a similar rate due to gender differences in child-rearing roles.

I don't know the answer, but it would be fun to have a twitter comment with a zillion likes asking Sam Altman this question.  Maybe someone should make one?

1Rebecca
OpenAI wasn’t a private company (ie for-profit) at the time of the OP grant though.
1Ebenezer Dukakis
So basically, I think it is a bad idea and you think we can't do it anyway. In that case let's stop calling for it, and call for something more compassionate and realistic like a public apology. I'll bet an apology would be a more effective way to pressure OpenAI to clean up its act anyways. Which is a better headline -- "OpenAI cofounder apologizes for their role in creating OpenAI", or some sort of internal EA movement drama? If we can generate a steady stream of negative headlines about OpenAI, there's a chance that Sam is declared too much of a PR and regulatory liability. I don't think it's a particularly good plan, but I haven't heard a better one.
1Ebenezer Dukakis
Sure, I think this helps tease out the moral valence point I was trying to make. "Don't allow them near" implies their advice is actively harmful, which in turn suggests that reversing it could be a good idea. But as you say, this is implausible. A more plausible statement is that their advice is basically noise -- you shouldn't pay too much attention to it. I expect OP would've said something like that if they were focused on descriptive accuracy rather than scapegoating. Another way to illuminate the moral dimension of this conversation: If we're talking about poor decision-making, perhaps MIRI and FHI should also be discussed? They did a lot to create interest in AGI, and MIRI failed to create good alignment researchers by its own lights. Now after doing advocacy off and on for years, and creating this situation, they're pivoting to 100% advocacy. Could MIRI be made up of good people who are "great at technical stuff", yet apt to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to communicating with the public? It's hard for me to imagine an upvoted post on this forum saying "MIRI shouldn't be allowed anywhere near AI safety communications".

Firstly, I'm assuming that high resolution human brain emulation that you can run on a computer is conscious in normal sense that we use in conversations. Like, it talks, has memories, makes new memories, have friends and hobbies and likes and dislikes and stuff. Just like a human that you could talk with only through videoconference type thing on a computer, but without actual meaty human on the other end. It would be VERY weird if this emulation exhibited all these human qualities for other reason than meaty humans exhibit them. Like, very extremely what the fuck surprising. Do you agree?

So, we now have deterministic human file on our hands. 

Then, you can trivially make transformer like next token predictor out of human emulation. You just have emulation,...

1weightt an
Well, it's like saying if the {human in a car as a single system} is or is not conscious. Firstly it's a weird question, because of course it is. And even if you chain the human to a wheel in such a way they will never disjoin from the car. What I did is constrained possible actions of the human emulation. Not severely, the human still can talk whatever, just with constant compute budget, time or iterative commutation steps. Kind of like you can constrain actions of a meaty human by putting them in a jail or something. (... or in a time loop / repeated complete memory wipes) How would you expect to this possibly cash out? Suppose there are human emulations running around doing all things exactly like meaty humans. How exactly do you expect that announcement of a high scientific council go, "We discovered that EMs are not conscious* because .... and that's important because of ...".  Is that completely out of model for you? Or like, can you give me (even goofy) scenario out of that possibility Or do you think high resolution simulations will fail to replicate capabilities of humans, outlook of them? I.e special sauce/quantum fuckery/literal magic?
JBlack20

I don't expect this to "cash out" at all, which is rather the point.

The only really surprising part would be that we had a way to determine for certain whether some other system is conscious or not at all. That is, very similar (high) levels of surprisal for either "ems are definitely conscious" or "ems are definitely not conscious", but the ratio between them not being anywhere near "what the fuck" level.

As it stands, I can determine that I am conscious but I do not know how or why I am conscious. I have only a sample size of 1, and no way to access a lar... (read more)

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...or continue with

 [memetic status: stating directly despite it being a clear consequence of core AI risk knowledge because many people have "but nature will survive us" antibodies to other classes of doom and misapply them here.]

Unfortunately, no.[1]

Technically, “Nature”, meaning the fundamental physical laws, will continue. However, people usually mean forests, oceans, fungi, bacteria, and generally biological life when they say “nature”, and those would not have much chance competing against a misaligned superintelligence for resources like sunlight and atoms, which are useful to both biological and artificial systems.

There’s a thought that comforts many people when they imagine humanity going extinct due to a nuclear catastrophe or runaway global warming: Once the mushroom clouds or CO2 levels have settled, nature will reclaim the cities. Maybe mankind in our hubris will have wounded Mother Earth and paid the price ourselves, but...

19ryan_greenblatt
I think literal extinction is unlikely even conditional on misaligned AI takeover due to: * The potential for the AI to be at least a tiny bit "kind" (same as humans probably wouldn't kill all aliens). [1] * Decision theory/trade reasons This is discussed in more detail here and here. Insofar as humans and/or aliens care about nature, similar arguments apply there too, though this is mostly beside the point: if humans survive and have (even a tiny bit of) resources they can preserve some natural easily. I find it annoying how confident this article is without really bothering to engage with the relevant arguments here. (Same goes for many other posts asserting that AIs will disassemble humans for their atoms.) ---------------------------------------- 1. This includes the potential for the AI to have preferences that are morally valueable from a typical human perspective. ↩︎
O O10

Additionally, the AI might think it's in an alignment simulation and just leave the humans as is or even nominally address their needs. This might be mentioned in the linked post, but I want to highlight it. Since we already do very low fidelity alignment simulations by training deceptive models, there is reason to think this.

5GoteNoSente
It is not at all clear to me that most of the atoms in a planet could be harnessed for technological structures, or that doing so would be energy efficient. Most of the mass of an earthlike planet is iron, oxygen, silicon and magnesium, and while useful things can be made out of these elements, I would strongly worry that other elements that are needed also in those useful things will run out long before the planet has been disassembled. By historical precedent, I would think that an AI civilization on Earth will ultimately be able to use only a tiny fraction of the material in the planet, similarly to how only a very small fraction of a percent of the carbon in the planet is being used by the biosphere, in spite of biological evolution having optimized organisms for billions of years towards using all resources available for life. The scenario of a swarm of intelligent drones eating up a galaxy and blotting out its stars I think can empirically be dismissed as very unlikely, because it would be visible over intergalactic distances. Unless we are the only civilization in the observable universe in the present epoch, we would see galaxies with dark spots or very strangely altered spectra somewhere. So this isn't happening anywhere. There are probably some historical analogs for the scenario of a complete takeover, but they are very far in the past, and have had more complex outcomes than intelligent grey goo scenarios normally portray. One instance I can think of is the Great Oxygenation Event. I imagine an observer back then might have envisioned that the end result of the evolution of cyanobacteria doing oxygenic photosynthesis would be the oceans and lakes and rivers all being filled with green slime, with a toxic oxygen atmosphere killing off all other life. While indeed this prognosis would have been true to a first order approximation - green plants do dominate life on Earth today - the reality of what happened is infinitely more complex than this crude pictu
4Dagon
If it's possible for super-intelligent AI to be non-sentient, wouldn't it be possible for insects to evolve non-sentient intelligence as well?  I guess I didn't assume "non-sentient" in the definition of "unaligned".

Introduction

[Reminder: I am an internet weirdo with no medical credentials]

A few months ago, I published some crude estimates of the power of nitric oxide nasal spray to hasten recovery from illness, and speculated about what it could do prophylactically. While working on that piece a nice man on Twitter alerted me to the fact that humming produces lots of nasal nitric oxide. This post is my very crude model of what kind of anti-viral gains we could expect from humming.

I’ve encoded my model at Guesstimate. The results are pretty favorable (average estimated impact of 66% reduction in severity of illness), but extremely sensitive to my made-up numbers. Efficacy estimates go from ~0 to ~95%, depending on how you feel about publication bias, what percent of Enovid’s impact...

4Elizabeth
Can you clarify this part? The liquid is a reactive solution (and contains other ingredients) so I don't understand how you calculated it. I agree the integral is a reasonable interpretation and appreciate you pointing it out. My guess is low frequent applications are better than infrequent high doses, but I don't know what the conversion rate is and this definitely undermines the hundred-dollar-bill case. 

My prior is that solutions contain on the order of 1% active ingredients, and of things on the Enovid ingredients list, citric acid and NaNO2 are probably the reagents that create NO [1], which happens at a 5.5:1 mass ratio. 0.11ppm*hr as an integral over time already means the solution is only around 0.01% NO by mass [1], which is 0.055% reagents by mass, probably a bit more because yield is not 100%. This is a bit low but believable. If the concentration were really only 0.88ppm and dissipated quickly, it would be extremely dilute which seems unlikely. T... (read more)


The movement to reduce AI x-risk  is overly purist. This is leading to a lot of sects to maintain each individual sect's platonic level of purity and is actively (greatly) harming the cause.

How the Safety Sects Manifest

  • People suggest not publishing AI research
  • More recently, Jan and his team leaving OpenAI
  • Less recently, Paul Christiano leaving OpenAI to form METR[1]
  • Even less recently, Anthropic  forming off of OpenAI
  • A suggestion to blacklist anyone who decided to give $30 million (a paltry sum of money for a startup) to OpenAI. 
     

I think these were all legitimate responses to a perceived increase in risk, but ultimately did or will do more harm than good. Disclaimer: I am the least sure that the formation Anthropic increases p(doom) but I speculate, post AGI, it will be seen...

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